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Midi Guitar

 
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Gorecki
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Glenwood, MD

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:
I tried using MIDI guitar
as somebody here suggested by I find that while my timing may be
better on MIDI guitar - since I do not play piano at all - it produces too
many artifacts that my guitar synth translates as notes - to be useful
as far as notation goes. Unless you play very very cleanly.


You know what JT, I had that same problem too once upon a time. And what I discovered is the vast majority of it was the midi output trying too hard. I would try to track piano parts, then look at the saved midi and I would see literally thousands of pitch bend events. Once I told it to ignore pitch bend events, it cleaned up a lot!

It's not perfect but I admit the Roland GI-20 direct to software I've been using has been outstanding in tracking and clean results. Just thought I'd share. Wink
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorecki wrote:

You know what JT, I had that same problem too once upon a time. And what I discovered is the vast majority of it was the midi output trying too hard. I would try to track piano parts, then look at the saved midi and I would see literally thousands of pitch bend events. Once I told it to ignore pitch bend events, it cleaned up a lot!


Hey - that is really good tip - I did not try that with GR33 - might solve
a lot of problems - keyboard is still useful but most licks are very hard
for me to play on kbrd - I am not a piano man.

JT
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Gorecki
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Glenwood, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:

Hey - that is really good tip - I did not try that with GR33 - might solve
a lot of problems - keyboard is still useful but most licks are very hard
for me to play on kbrd - I am not a piano man.


I have a GR33 too. This unit is exactly where I discovered this issue in that it's not that it 'doesn't track well', it 'tries to track too well'. With a GR33 it's internal sounds play well but triggering external midi equipment really didn't. I 'tamed that beast' for the most part but still wasn't satisfied. So I added the GI-20 and using soft synths allows me the complete and total control I wanted. Because it does very little 'thinking' unless I tell it to. Razz
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 10:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorecki wrote:

I have a GR33 too. This unit is exactly where I discovered this issue in that it's not that it 'doesn't track well', it 'tries to track too well'. With a GR33 it's internal sounds play well but triggering external midi equipment really didn't. I 'tamed that beast' for the most part but still wasn't satisfied.


So what did you do w/ GR33? I tried fiddling with pickup sensitivity
and that did not make much difference. But I admit - I have not RTFM.

BTW - I use RMC piuckup mounted in a bridge of semihollow Ibanez
AS120 - I think that is big part of my problem. That pup pick some
sympathetic noise (eg. cable inside the body rattling agains the top)
and translates it into notes. I think that solid body guitars - preferably
with less complex spectrum - like eg. Strats - are better choice as MIDI
instruments.

I also have VG88 - but I cant say I care much for the FEEL of that
device - it DOES NOT respond like regular guitar - no matter what I
tried - and different patches have different problems with dynamics.
My biggest dissapointment was that I was NOT able to get alternative
tuning working - instead of getting clean notes from letsay open A
tuning I was getting those mixed with standard tuning.

Cheers,

JT
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Gorecki
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Glenwood, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:
So what did you do w/ GR33? I tried fiddling with pickup sensitivity
and that did not make much difference. But I admit - I have not RTFM.


I did a couple of things as the GR33 is documented like you would already know what it does. I would either, boot it up external midi out only and use the receiving midi sequencer (my case Cubase) and tell it to ignore pitch bends, or change it to a preset that would not transmit pitch bends. Though the sound selected is not being used it still transmits it's midi parameters. A little short sighted on their part.

Quote:

BTW - I use RMC piuckup mounted in a bridge of semihollow Ibanez
AS120 - I think that is big part of my problem. That pup pick some
sympathetic noise (eg. cable inside the body rattling agains the top)
and translates it into notes. I think that solid body guitars - preferably
with less complex spectrum - like eg. Strats - are better choice as MIDI
instruments.


Most certainly could be, pickups (even midi) converters are micro microphones in ways and any excess resonance or sound it will try to interpret. I don't even bother with the external midi pickups because of these sorts of problems. To be honest still haven't found a midi guitar I really like. I suspect I'm going to have to build it and have already drawn up plans to build a double neck midi, one neck fretted, the other fretless. The fretless so I can use non-tempered sounds as they are intended. I just have to find the time. Rolling Eyes

But I must share with you, the one I have been using being a Roland GK-Ready Strat showed noticeable difference between the GR33 and the GI-20 with little effort on my part.

Quote:
I also have VG88 - but I cant say I care much for the FEEL of that
device - it DOES NOT respond like regular guitar - no matter what I
tried - and different patches have different problems with dynamics.
My biggest dissapointment was that I was NOT able to get alternative
tuning working - instead of getting clean notes from let say open A
tuning I was getting those mixed with standard tuning.


Honestly man, I don't believe any will every respond like a regular guitar. Because it isn't! Example, midi controller keyboards are basically a glorified switch. You press the button the sound happens. Guitar is so radically different from that and is largely part of the problem. The midi is interpreted and not just a switch so there are a lot of variables that come into play. Even the intonation of the guitar itself can completely screw up the results! So I try very hard to setup the midi guitar as flawlessly as I can and I have to play it articulately. Once this is accepted as how things have to happen, it get's better.

Also, the issues it brings into play, I feel actually improve my quality of play because it forces me to play more cleanly. Wink

I'm think I'm going to sub divide this thread into another specifically about midi guitar once you've seen this so we don't polute the transcribing thread more. Thumbs Up!
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