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Who Is Arranging What?

 
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Jun 08, 2008 7:36 pm    Post subject: Who Is Arranging What? Reply with quote

Hey Guys,

Okay, I see very little conversation or tune topics in this part of our forum, which only leads me to conclude one of two things:

1) There is little interest in the subject of arranging (doubtful).

2) Very few here are spending much time arranging (probable).

For me, arranging is something I do every single day, and it's something that is critically important to the entire assimilation process in learning, because it represents the way that we put together our past and present experiences in order to assure future growth. It's the "A" part of the A.R.T. (for ARTistic) philosophy, which hinges on consistent study time spent Arranging, Recording, and Transcribing.

If you're not finding time to arrange daily for at least 10-15 minutes, you are making a HUGE mistake in denying yourself guaranteed growth and a whole lot of fun. Here are potential projects for you to consider, and ones that we can discuss here in our forum:

Arranging Standards for Solo Guitar

Commonly referred to as "Chord-Melody" arranging, this is where you harmonize the melody of any popular tune with the appropriate chords from the progression. The range in subject matter (pop, latin, blues, jazz, folk, country, gospel) and the different approaches used (simple to complex) are just enormous. With every completed project you walk away with an expanded chord vocabulary that gets applied to the next arrangement. You're only limited by the number of songs that you can imagine arranging. In other words, unlimited. Nothing like it unless you're not doing it, and the one side benefit that isn't obvious is the resulting advancement as a superior rhythm guitarist and chordal thinker, plus the ability to play dedicated jazz chord solos a la Wes and others.

Arranging Model Blues & Jazz Solos

My students who subscribe to arranging model solos have witnessed vast improvements in their ability to apply their acquired language while getting deeper into the changes of any particular tune or progression. Again, the range here is broad and can cover basic 12-bar blues solos to complicated bebop progressions to latin tunes to classic vocal standards that are suitable for improvising. As guitarists, the solos can be single-note in nature but you can also arrange model octave and chord solos a la Wes. Keep in mind the fact that most of Charlie Parker's legendary tunes are really his favorite model solos over a standard progression. Highly recommended!

Arranging Intros & Endings

This is something that I love to do, and is the subject for a new "Cool Jazz Chords" lesson series that I have presently underway. This is where you take common turnaround formulas (involving two to four chords) and use them as a basis for creating interesting intros and endings to be used in both solo and ensemble situations. Once again, the range is broad in that it can be as simple as a pair of chords and a nice single-line fill, or almost an entire mini composition with numerous chords, bass moves, and fills. It also allows you to fully explore the use of chord substitutions, melodies that move from one point to another, common tone melodies across a series of changing chords, etc. And it allows you to do all of this without infringing on the actual melody of the song itself, which is what most listeners want to hear. And the best part? Every intro or ending you come up with can be used potentially over dozens of related tunes and progressions, so you're not tied to any one tune.

Arranging Accompaniments

This area is related to the others and also one that has been partially addressed in the "Comping & Walking Bass" topic. This is where you build rhythm parts with the melody in the back of your mind but not stated in your selection of chords. As with the others, you're only limited by the number of tunes available (endless).

Time to get off the soap box. Wink The question is "Who Is Arranging What?" and I'd really be curious to hear the response and any thoughts on the subject? All for now...

- Mark
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 7:35 am    Post subject: Re: Who Is Arranging What? Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
For me, arranging is something I do every single day, and it's something that is critically important to the entire assimilation process in learning, because it represents the way that we put together our past and present experiences in order to assure future growth. It's the "A" part of the A.R.T. (for ARTistic) philosophy, which hinges on consistent study time spent Arranging, Recording, and Transcribing.

If you're not finding time to arrange daily for at least 10-15 minutes, you are making a HUGE mistake in denying yourself guaranteed growth and a whole lot of fun. Here are potential projects for you to consider, and ones that we can discuss here in our forum:


...Time to get off the soap box. Wink The question is "Who Is Arranging What?" and I'd really be curious to hear the response and any thoughts on the subject?



Mark,

I'm not sure where this fits in the conversation, but something new I'm trying
(actually since my new bass arrived), is the Bartok "Mikrokosmos."

It is a six volume set of "progressive (solo) piano pieces", developed
around different melodic/counterpoint/rhythmic concepts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mikrokosmos

Many of the pieces appear deceptively easy, but much to be learned from them.

Any number of ways to think about them in a guitar context.

duets - bass in low register and high register to cover octave ('unison') lines.

bass and guitar on octave melodies.

solo guitar arrangement - standard tuning or even possibly open tuning.

great with voice and guitar or better; two vox parts.

-Kb
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 8:03 am    Post subject: Re: Who Is Arranging What? Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
I'm not sure where this fits in the conversation, but something new I'm trying (actually since my new bass arrived), is the Bartok "Mikrokosmos."


Kb,

Thanks for the input and link. However, while observing and analyzing what others have composed and arranged is certainly a part of the learning process, I'm much more interested in hearing what YOU and other forum members are actually arranging, based on standard tunes and common chord progressions.

That way we can exchange personal ideas and discoveries. All for now...

- Mark
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thaydon



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2008 11:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well this is a topic that totally escapes me. Lets take intros. I don't know where to begin. Besides starting with the chords of the last 4 measures of a tune, how can i create different melodies and/or chord substitutions for songs. I listen to Miles' Tune Up and others tunes and wonder how did they come up with that?

Any help would be great.
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Todd
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I did a arrangement,but at the time I did not know it was one.In my guitar class we pared up on a blues progression.One of us would play the progression while the other one played lead ,and then after the second time,one of us would play just the chords once for every four beats and the other one would solo.After we both solo ,we split up the outro,and then came together on the last two chords.Hope you can understand me,and this is what you are looking for.
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Mark
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 3:04 am    Post subject: Getting Started Reply with quote

thaydon wrote:
Well this is a topic that totally escapes me. Lets take intros. I don't know where to begin. Besides starting with the chords of the last 4 measures of a tune, how can i create different melodies and/or chord substitutions for songs. I listen to Miles' Tune Up and others tunes and wonder how did they come up with that?


Todd,

As with any other branch of music study, time and experience count for everything. For instance, I guarantee that if you were to spend some time each day arranging popular standards, you'd quickly become aware of the most common turnaround formulas. The more tunes you arrange the more your acquired knowledge expands. The topic "totally escapes" you because you're not arranging each day. Wink

The reason I'm pointing this out is because it dawned on me many years ago that the vast majority of established jazz musicians know literally countless standards, and that realization partially fueled my effort to arrange and build an extensive vocabulary of tunes. Of course, I also simply wanted to play essential tunes that other musicians would know and that the average listener would recognize. Goes hand in hand with my mantra of mainly practicing something that you would actually play for someone.

A turnaround is typically a series of four chords spaced two beats apart. The most common formula is I-VI7-IIm7-V7, so in the key of C you might have Cmaj7 (or C6) to A7 to Dm7 to G7. Of the four, the dominant chords are the ones most likely to be altered or replaced with substitutions, but it's a wide open field depending on what you're hearing. In other words, simple is just fine if it's appropriate and tasteful for the situation. The same goes for more complicated treatments. I rarely complicate things just for the sake of doing so. There has to be a purpose dealing with a specific melody, bass line, and with general texture taken into consideration.

For starters, just sit down and play any Cmaj7, A7, Dm7 and G7 that comes to mind, and then ask yourself what melody (top note) you just created? Because no matter what you choose you are always generating a melody of some kind, whether it's random or based on the actually melody of a well-known standard. Then begin playing around and experimenting, changing the personality of the chord when necessary. It's a lot of fun and you'll get better and better at it the more you do it. As this discussion evolves, I'll put up some examples from my new series. I hope others will chime in, too.

Dean wrote:
Well I did a arrangement,but at the time I did not know it was one.In my guitar class we pared up on a blues progression.One of us would play the progression while the other one played lead ,and then after the second time,one of us would play just the chords once for every four beats and the other one would solo.After we both solo ,we split up the outro,and then came together on the last two chords.Hope you can understand me,and this is what you are looking for.


Dean,

What you're describing is more along the lines of improvising or jamming within a structured context. So the format may have been "arranged" ahead of time, but there are no specifics regarding what either of you would play (e.g. chord voicings, licks, etc). You could jam seven nights a week, regardless of format, and never become a skilled arranger.

Have you ever arranged a standard for solo guitar? A Beatles' tune or something like Amazing Grace or Misty, where you have to capture the melody as the highest note in your choice of chords? That's one of most obvious forms of arranging on guitar, but just the tip of the potential iceberg. Arranging is definitely related to both improvising and composing, but more as a means to an end. All for now...

- Mark
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to admit that I don't arrange on a regular basis. It's sometimes by accident. I will transcribe a sax or other single line solo and decide it would be interesting to figure out an accompaniment with bass and chords.

If a song is slow enough, such as Moonlight In Vermont I will try a chord melody. If it's a faster tune I end up playing the melody and working in whatever I can below it, be it chords, double stops, and/or bass lines. I'm making an attempt with Star Eyes right now, and it's a real challenge. I'm sure it would get easier if I made it a daily practice. Tough to do when you're taking two courses at once.

Just Jazz Guitar magazine usually features excellent material from excellent arrangers. Anyone who is interested in arranging should subscribe to it.
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Mark
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2008 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reality Check! Reply with quote

Larry wrote:
I have to admit that I don't arrange on a regular basis. It's sometimes by accident. I will transcribe a sax or other single line solo and decide it would be interesting to figure out an accompaniment with bass and chords.

If a song is slow enough, such as Moonlight In Vermont I will try a chord melody. If it's a faster tune I end up playing the melody and working in whatever I can below it, be it chords, double stops, and/or bass lines. I'm making an attempt with Star Eyes right now, and it's a real challenge. I'm sure it would get easier if I made it a daily practice. Tough to do when you're taking two courses at once.

Just Jazz Guitar magazine usually features excellent material from excellent arrangers. Anyone who is interested in arranging should subscribe to it.


Larry,

A number of points to be made:

1) Any aspiring guitarist with an interest in jazz, even at the hobby level, needs to arrange on a regular basis. If you don't, you won't become a creative chordal thinker, a superior rhythm guitarist, a chord soloist, etc, let alone develop a vocabulary of standards for performance, either solo or in an ensemble context.

2) As with transcribing, all that counts is that you do it regularly, not how much time you invest in arranging each day. Do you have 15 minutes a day to arrange? If so, you have the time. No excuses. Wink

3) Any song can be treated slowly, like Moonlight In Vermont. It doesn't have to be a ballad, although tunes like MIV, Misty, My Funny Valentine, God Bless the Child, Here's That Rainy Day, Stella by Starlight, Round Midnight, Georgia On My Mind, ad infinitum, are excellent ballad vehicles. Of course, there are many, many others.

How about swing tunes like All the Things You Are or Autumn Leaves? Those make great ballads. So does almost every latin tune you could name, and there are even a number of bebop tunes with sustained tones that make great candidates, like Giant Steps, Moments Notice, Tune Up, Lady Bird, Cherokee, etc. Pop tunes? Whew, too many to list, but check out this rendition of Moon River (Henry Mancini) that I recorded a while ago. Jazzy intro with fills based on a turnaround in C with subs (Em7, Eb9, Dm9, Db7#9), one time through pretty close to the vest, and an ending based on another turnaround with subs (Cmaj7, Ebmaj7, Abmaj7, Dbmaj7).

With all of the above in mind, what I recommend is making a long list of tunes you would like to eventually arrange, then just peck away those 15 minutes each day. You know, an intro for Misty, a verse for Moonlight In Vermont, the bridge for Round Midnight, an ending for Stella. Keep in mind that you're not in a race against the clock here. You just want to evolve and be thinking about chords and melodies on a daily basis. And this is just one aspect of arranging (see original post), but it's an important one. It's also addicting and a whole lot of fun! All for now...

- Mark
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:52 am    Post subject: Re: Reality Check! Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Keep in mind that you're not in a race against the clock here. You just want to evolve and be thinking about chords and melodies on a daily basis. And this is just one aspect of arranging (see original post), but it's an important one. It's also addicting and a whole lot of fun!


Here is arrangement I've started from the 'Show (TV) Music' category;
'The Theme From the odd Couple.'


(Kb ed. note 08_0611: I just corrected a couple of score errors. Very late and tired when I initially worked out the page in Finale)

A very basic arrangement idea, easy to play.

I have more and will post the rest later. It takes longer to do the
notation in software than it does to figure out the music thought.

Mark, if I recall correctly, you do your 'Flintstones' theme in octaves.

-Kb


Last edited by kbgtr001 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 10:55 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mark
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:43 am    Post subject: Re: Flintstones Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
A very basic arrangement idea, easy to play.

I have more and will post the rest later. It takes longer to do the
notation in software than it does does to figure out the music thought.

Mark, if I recall correctly, you do your 'Flintstones' theme in octaves.


Kb,

I like it! Nothing wrong with a "basic" arrangement at all. The opening slide from the pickup B to the E on the A string sounds great. Any reason why you chose the fretted G and B as opposed to open strings? To my ear the open option has a really nice flavor on the acoustic.

Yes, the jazz quartet recording I did last year of the Flintstones Theme was done in Wes-style octaves for the head. However, I have three other "work in progress" chord-melody arrangements of that tune that I have yet to fully score or record on guitar. One is as a rubato ballad, another as a block chord swing version for guitar trio with bass and drums, and a third with a walking bass throughout on guitar.

I just knocked them out in MIDI to MP3 format so you guys can hear them:

Flintstones w/Bass & Drums

Flintstones w/Walking Bass

I added a brush track for percussion on the second one, done at a slower tempo but still a nice pace. I also added some MIDI reverb to the guitar. Just marginal demo recordings but enough to get the idea across. All for now...

- Mark
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kbgtr001



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:25 am    Post subject: Re: Odd Couple Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Kb,

I like it! Nothing wrong with a "basic" arrangement at all. The opening slide from the pickup B to the E on the A string sounds great. Any reason why you chose the fretted G and B as opposed to open strings? To my ear the open option has a really nice flavor on the acoustic.



Mark,

Thanks, man.

I like the 'subdued' timbre of the melody line on the 'stopped'
notes; I have an image of a 'sad faced Felix' in that line.
It has a real 'cello' quality about it that works for the 'mood.'
Also, an option to play around a little more with the slide.

I tried the open strings as you suggest.
I can get a very resonant 'John Renbourn' quality with
that approach. It is an incredible timbre variation/contrast with
exactly the same pitch material. Too cool! ('Very Happy')

-Kb
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Mark
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2008 9:45 am    Post subject: Re: Odd Couple Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
I tried the open strings as you suggest.
I can get a very resonant 'John Renbourn' quality with
that approach. It is an incredible timbre variation/contrast with
exactly the same pitch material. Too cool! ('Very Happy')


Kb,

Yes, I totally understand. On my archtop the fretted tones are more attractive, plus you have the option of vibrato. On the other hand, the open strings lend themselves to a more "airy" nature when played on the nylon-string (my acoustic of choice). It's good both ways. Wink

- Mark
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kbgtr001



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PostPosted: Thu Nov 27, 2008 3:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don Mitchell wrote:
Let me start off by qualifying my advice to fingerstyle arrangements only. While chordmelody work can be done with plectrum, I feel it limits the single most important constituent of solo guitar--namely rhythm--as to be uninteresting to me.

When I first started arranging, I was obsessed with reharmonization. It's an easy trap to fall into since the more complex harmony of jazz was one of the main things that drew me to the genre. And it can easily substitute for what can often be the more difficult and challenging aspect of solo guitar: swing, latin or rock groove. So, my first advice is to get your fingerstyle chops together, especially with respect rhythm.

If you can get some video of Joe Pass, you'll be surprised to see that the chords he played were pretty generic, standard grips--no Allan Holdsworth finger-torture stuff. And his reharmonizations weren't all that adventuresome; some occasional flat five subs, but mostly back-cycling or dominant subs for minors. What made Pass's playing so wonderful was it swung!

Try doing an arrangement of a standard that already has interesting changes so you don't have to worry about spicing it up with extensive reharmonization, and just focus on making it swing, and emphasizing the melody.

Another rule to follow is arrange in "guitar friendly" keys so as to utilize open bass strings, you know, E, C, G, A, D.

I've got plenty more advice, since it's probably my biggest passion related to guitar, but I'll save it for later.

Don
www.donmitchell.us

Mark,

I discovered this thread by Don Mitchell in the "Chord Melody Arranging Tips ?"
discussion;

http://visionmusic.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=34

It's very insightful and relevant to our recent arranging discussion,
so I thought it would be appropriate to post it here.

-Kb

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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I need to listen to Mark's advice more often. I finally began arranging on a regular basis a short time ago. What began as a 10-20 minutes per day exercise is beginning to encroach on my usual study material. The combination of regular arranging and studying bass has made it much clearer as to how melody and comping work together. My most recent attempt, a basic finger style arrangement of I Got Rhythm gave me the opportunity to consider the importance of every bass note's function and the required fingering to play it. It's like any other musical endeavor, quality study time yields results.

Has anyone else found that studying bass has made arranging easier?
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