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Lessons By Mail
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

odel wrote:
Well I just signed up for this so I've yet to receive my first lesson but can I assume that for those of us who can't spend 3 hours a day on this, that we can extend the lessons over longer periods or, once signed up, do we have to lockstep into the two weekly cycle?


odel, of course you can proceed at your own pace. I think once you begin you will find that the two week cycle will be realistic. Mark's lessons are geared towards the beginning jazz student and gradually build up to more challenging concepts. Having said that, there have been lessons that have taken me the entire two weeks to learn and others that were easy. Most fall somewhere in between. The important thing is to set your sights on the long term goals and have fun on the way. How long it takes is all up to you.
Let us know how you like Lesson #1.
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Tue Mar 10, 2009 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odel said:

Quote:
Well I just signed up for this so I've yet to receive my first lesson but can I assume that for those of us who can't spend 3 hours a day on this, that we can extend the lessons over longer periods or, once signed up, do we have to lockstep into the two weekly cycle?


Hi Odel,

Congratulations on making a great choice. As a longtime student, I can tell you that you will progress faster than you expected.

I don't think you need to spend three hours a day on the lessons. IMHO, minimum is probably an hour. Of course, if you can spend more, the progress is all that much faster.

By the way, which program did you sign up for? They're all good. Keep us posted how it's going.
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odel



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm on the Swing Blues LBM course -- just started it last night! So, if you know this course, you'll realize I am spending my time working through those short chord voicings. Playing the 'jazz blues' progression is not a problem with the chords in front of me, the issue is trying to remember the names and shapes so that I can name and play in real time without looking. Figure I need to put the time in on these as they provide the foundation.

thanks for the encouragement, I'll report my progress if it will be of interest to others.

Odel
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odel, The short chords are great. I use them all the time. Later in the lessons, Mark will show you how to put a walking bass line under the top two notes, which is really cool. They're great for chord "punches" too. If I remember correctly, the first lesson has "C Jam Blues" in it, which is a fun tune and has some great punches.
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odel



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, 2 months later, here I sit, probably making progress but feeling a little overwhelmed. The short chords seem to have stuck but by lesson 5 I really feel that I am struggling to get those various II-V lines down and feeling like a novice again when I watch my fingers go anywhere but smoothly towards to chord fingerings I am aiming towards Smile Blues Chord Solo from Lesson 3 is great but wow, this has taken me weeks just to get to the point where I can play is slowly without the music, naming the chords as I go (a real challenge at first!). The lessons come a little too fast for me but I am doing my best.

As a long time blues player (I am 47 and have played for 20 years) I find that I have internalized the scale and chord patterns from blues so deeply that breaking out of those familiar licks and forms is really difficult. I am learning the board anew -- playing combos of notes that before I'd never string together, and I tell you it makes my head spin!!!

On top of this, I cannot seem to hear jazz yet the way I hear blues. In a regular 12 bar, I am rarely, if ever, lost, and can feel where the chords are as I solo -- with jazz, even when it's a 12 bar, I seem to get lost, and once we move beyond this form into 16 and 32 bar sequences, then I am not even confident I am hearing the structure at all.....this really unnerves me!

So, my tactic is to go really slow, try to learn the lessons bit by bit, even to the point of holding repeating the 3rd and 4th finger changes between the G7 and G+7 on the last bar of the Blues Chord Solo to try to get these old fingers to shift smoothly....it feels like I am a beginner again...wonderful but awful at the same time Smile
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Odel,

Hang in there! I did it too. It comes with time.

On the jazz blues, I found that the most important thing vis-a-vis th standard 12 bar form is to remember the VI7 chord comes at bar 8, and there is a two-five at measures 9 and 10. So, if you get lost, try to hear those. Make sure you can hear the VI7 arpeggio in bar 8, and the ii-V in measure 9 and 10. I had a breaktrhrough when I figured that out. All the other alterations to the standard form are more pedestrian (you can even use a blues scale for all of those, but bars 8 through 10 need to be more harmonic).

When I started transcribing solos, I found that a lot of players do similar things to what I said. (Check out Pass, Grant Green and Kenny Burrell for example; the language is strong in measures 8 through 10; often there's a cool turnaround in measures 11 and 12. They often get strong IV7 language in measure 5, as well).
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another thing I find helpful for keeping my place in a swing blues is to sing bass lines (starting with just roots) when I am away from the guitar -- like when I am walking. I started out doing this with simple blues, then I added the substitute changes one at a time. It's tougher than it sounds, and it is amazing ear training. After doing this for a while, I found that I was able to find my place easily when I played with others.
';
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

odel wrote:
As a long time blues player (I am 47 and have played for 20 years) I find that I have internalized the scale and chord patterns from blues so deeply that breaking out of those familiar licks and forms is really difficult.


I'm another who played rock and blues for a long time before exploring jazz. I thought along the same lines as you, that it was so difficult to break out and feel natural playing jazz. It will take time, but it will happen if you practice diligently and appreciate the small "victories." I remember lesson 3 being a challenge, but I was so thrilled at playing those cool chords that it didn't matter. It was fun at any speed. That G7 to G+7 move will become your friend, because it's all over the place in jazz. Lenny's thoughts are spot on. I walk a couple of miles every other day and I'm usually going over lines or changes or whatever the current lesson is in my head. I sometimes keep time with my hand while reciting chord changes or singing a solo I have transcribed. The time away from your guitar can be as valuable as your practice time.
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odel



Joined: 02 Mar 2009
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 4:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks both for the positive notes -- sometimes it really is the obvious that one never sees! Lenny - you just steered me to a real landmark with that observation of the VI7 chord and it's occurrence in bar 8. I went back to various progressions I've learned or played and even when it was not obviously present, I generally found it lurking somewhere in there in some form. Why had I never noticed? How many more of these must be out there for me to find! Am sure others are rolling their eyes thinking how did I not know this but there you go.....

I agree on the time away being important - I am trying to discipline myself to think through progressions and to name chords in my mind when not near a guitar. I have always avoided making this effort but I realize I was short-changing myself by not trying to make good use of such time. So, I am trying to develop patience more than anything here -- one little step at a time, and trying to learn from every encounter and opportunity. A 13 chord is not such a mystery once you stop to unpack it!

Best

O.
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

odel wrote:
Lenny - you just steered me to a real landmark with that observation of the VI7 chord and it's occurrence in bar 8.


Hi Guys,

One thing that might interest you is the fact that thinking the dominant blues sound of the key is extremely useful in navigating the VI7 chord without playing some sophisticated jazz lick. In other words, in the key of C using dominant blues and accenting the Bb gives you a very hip bebop effect against that A7 in bar eight, because it's the b9 of that chord. So you get blues and the "outside" touch at the same time. The same note carries a lot of weight in bar four to create movement and gravity towards the IV chord, and even in bar twelve to pick up the #9 against the V chord (G7) in the spirit of traditional blues guitarists.

In all three instances you can play more sophisticated ideas, but I love the fact that a simple C7 blues figure works so well and is easy to access during the course of a solo. All for now...

- Mark
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"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
the dominant blues sound of the key is extremely useful in navigating


Mark, thanks! That is a cool concept for navigating the jazz blues.
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nylenny wrote:
Mark, thanks! That is a cool concept for navigating the jazz blues.


Len,

Sure thing, man. Just one of many language-driven shortcuts that players won't arrive at without transcribing or if they use a scale-based approach. It was my father who used to point out the value of this or that specific note to me, and since he also transcribed to acquire the language, it was only logical that his ear conclusions formed the basis for his theory. That's the way it always should be and was for the forefathers of jazz and blues.

You might recall from one of my early CC articles the mention of Pop's "yardstick" story, where he likened all possible theory to a 36" yardstick, but with the reality that you'll only need 6" of it to play 99% of the music you will ever encounter? That's a fact that so many aspiring players (and teachers) overlook, falsely believing that the more classroom theory you know the better you'll play and compose. Not true at all.

Btw, I just got the green light from Ed Benson (Publisher/Just Jazz Guitar), and beginning with the November issue my Coach's Corner articles will appear in the magazine on a regular basis. I've always felt that there should be something path-oriented in music publications to offset yet another tune, lick, solo, etc. Finding the right path trumps everything, something my father conveyed to me at an early age. Til next time...

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, that's great news about the CC essays being included in Just Jazz Guitar. I've learned a lot from them.
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