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The "Dime-A-Dozen" Theory

 
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MRDMV



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:58 pm    Post subject: The "Dime-A-Dozen" Theory Reply with quote

I enjoyed Marks's article about the many wonderfully talented players that are never recognized or heard of. My guitar teacher told me this story. My old teacher has his own jazz group and he plays guitar. He at one time was a professional studio musician and he opened for Led Zeppelin in his past. Anyway he went to a party one time and he noticed a classical guitar on a stand in the corner and he asked about it. The young lady hosting the party told him he was welcome to play it. He played it and he was in a zone and he played better than he had in years. When he was done he was strutting around like a banty rooster. A quite guy at the party walked over and told him with some kind of foriegn accent "you play well". My old teacher asked him if he played the guitar and the guy said yes I do. The quiet guy sat down in a chair and pointed the neck straight up to the ceiling and when he started playing my teacher realized that this was the best guitar player he'd ever heard. My guitar teacher got depressed and felt that he really sucked after that. So it just goes to show you that Mark's comment about being just another "grain of sand on the beach" is a good one. I think it's good for all of ust to take a humble pill once in a while.
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 6:12 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Dime-A-Dozen" Theory Reply with quote

MRDMV wrote:
So it just goes to show you that Mark's comment about being just another "grain of sand on the beach" is a good one. I think it's good for all of us to take a humble pill once in a while.


MRDMV,

Glad you enjoyed the article, and thanks for sharing that story. I'm sure that it's one of countless like it. Another thing that has always fascinated me is the fact that the trademark elements we often associate with a noted guitar player (e.g. Wes and octaves, Benson scat-singing while playing, ad infinitum) are in actuality things that they learned from observing others, including those we've never heard of. As I often say, none of us owns the language. We only borrow it.

- Mark
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Gorecki
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Glenwood, MD

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This also touches on personalities of people. So often people that are known players are okay in front of people, where others are not!

I've always believe the best players in the world are woodshedding in a bedroom somewhere and nobody has ever heard or heard of them.
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 9:45 pm    Post subject: Re: The "Dime-A-Dozen" Theory Reply with quote

MRDMV wrote:
A quite guy at the party walked over and told him with some kind of foriegn accent "you play well". My old teacher asked him if he played the guitar and the guy said yes I do. The quiet guy sat down in a chair and pointed the neck straight up to the ceiling and when he started playing my teacher realized that this was the best guitar player he'd ever heard.


Hmmm - I was sortta expecting that punch line would be
be sth like: "So what is you name?" "Bireli." Wink
But I guess no silver lining eh?
Reminds me a bit of that British dude I worked with once.
He had some windsurfing photos above his desk so I asked
him if he was doing any windsurfing and he replied "Yeah. A little."
Later somebody told me he was for some years in top handful of
surfers in US in his age group and at some point made serious
attempt to cross Atlantic on a windsurfer...

JT
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the late 70's, I once stood in line behind a familiar looking guy at Valley Arts Guitars in Los Angeles. The line was moving slowly, so I asked him if he played guitar. He gave me a humble "yes" and changed the subject. Once I got to the counter, the clerk told me that the guy was Howard Roberts.
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Gorecki
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does seem sort of true (but absolutely not always) that the really really great ones come off like that (humble, not big headed)! While so often the so-so ones or even less act as though they have something to prove, 'gods gift' or the like?

What is this? Ego? People being insecure and trying to project otherwise?

Maybe when it all comes back to the simplest answer, a jerk is a jerk no matter what flag they fly. Laughing
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorecki wrote:
It does seem sort of true (but absolutely not always) that the really really great ones come off like that (humble, not big headed)! While so often the so-so ones or even less act as though they have something to prove, 'gods gift' or the like?

What is this? Ego? People being insecure and trying to project otherwise?

Maybe when it all comes back to the simplest answer, a jerk is a jerk no matter what flag they fly.


Brian,

Agreed, and there's a lot of depth to this subject, which caused me to devote a Coach's Corner article several years ago to "Humility In Music." It was subtitled "Maintaining A Healthy Ego." Relative to your comments, here's a good portion of the article that you and others might find interesting:

It's kind of funny. No one that I know really likes or appreciates someone who comes across egotistically, even if they can "back up the talk" with their acquired skill. Yet there's a fine line between being perceived as egotistical and being perceived as confident, and the case can clearly be made that the best and most successful musicians are those who exude confidence with a healthy ego.

When you stop to think about it, confidence is not only a trait that we want to possess ourselves, but one that we highly relish in others, regardless of profession. For instance, if you have a medical problem that deserves attention, you certainly don't want to be left in the hands of a physician or a surgeon who lacks confidence. And if you have a music teacher or coach, the last thing you want is to feel that the path you're walking is an uncertain one, especially with all of your precious time invested in daily study.

Now, when a person sounds very confident it can often be misconstrued as egotistical, and whether it is or not depends on the individual. However, I think the more important issue lies in the title of this article, because it's awfully difficult to repeatedly "beat your chest" if you really possess a genuine humility for your art, a humility that stems from years and years of graciously appreciating the work of your fellow artists, and humbly learning as much as you can from them. After all, a true artist is never bigger than the art itself.

Can you be, as the saying goes, "humble to a fault?" Yes, you most certainly can, and unfortunately I've seen this tendency exhibited in many fine players whom I've had the pleasure of working with over the years. It's not all that difficult to understand how this can happen. With so many great musicians setting such high standards due to their obsessive work ethic and devotion, it can leave an aspiring player simply awestruck when comparing their own skill level and commitment to their mentors, even if that ability richly deserves recognition.

Where I see this becoming a problem is that artists who are too humble often lack the confidence to promote themselves properly, so while their well-deserved skill often goes by unnoticed, others far less-deserving, far less humble, and far more egotistical reap the rewards that come with exposure. The benefits can range from general popularity to financial gain. This is why it's so important that we strive to achieve a balance between respect for our art and the healthy, confident ego that I spoke of earlier. Too much or not enough humility are the extremes that should be avoided at all costs.

- Mark
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MRDMV



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 25
Location: Sacramento, CA

PostPosted: Fri Sep 21, 2007 4:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark,

Can you make this article available here on the forum? "Humility In Music." It was subtitled "Maintaining A Healthy Ego." Thanks.
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2007 6:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

FYI, all of Mark's Coach's Corner articles are posted on the Vision Music site. It's worth becoming a member for the articles alone, not to mention the 900+ pages of jam tracks, lessons, etc. This may sound like a commercial, bit in fact it's my testimonial.
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Brad Kinder



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Richmond, VA

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread and something that really hits home for me. My lack of confidence has held me back for years. I wrote it off for a long time as a lack of ambition to do what it took to build a career in music but it really is a confidence thing. The self-hype that's involved is something I've never had a stomach for. Then you have the self comparison to other players as Mark stated. Not to menton the inability to turn off the self-critic can be a real creativity killer! I've come to realize it's me and only me that's in the way of everything I'm after.
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2007 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The music industry is a very tough gig.I have seen great players ,with the best attitude and chops not get thier due.One in mind is Andy Timmons,this guy has it all and for some reason you hardly hear about him.He is really big in Japan (such a shame) I ran into him one time and talked to him for a while and how much I enjoyed his music...next thing I know he reaches into his bag and hands me a copy of his dvd Andy Timmons Official Live Bootleg.....I was taken by this simple act of kindness.He is on the level of Vai and Sach....these guys are very nice ,too.For the ones with the it's all about me thing ....they just forget we decide how long they last.Your always working for someone,even if your the boss.Hey Brad ,just knowing that about yourself is a huge step forward.You just won a contest it is ok to yell it to the tree tops.Keep going your headed in the right direction.
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Sep 30, 2007 6:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad Kinder wrote:
Great thread and something that really hits home for me. My lack of confidence has held me back for years. I wrote it off for a long time as a lack of ambition to do what it took to build a career in music but it really is a confidence thing. The self-hype that's involved is something I've never had a stomach for. Then you have the self comparison to other players as Mark stated. Not to menton the inability to turn off the self-critic can be a real creativity killer! I've come to realize it's me and only me that's in the way of everything I'm after.


Brad,

On a related note and relevant to my CC series, I think you and everyone else might enjoy reading (or re-reading) my "Rating Your Ability - Is the Grass Really Greener?" article. It addresses the issue of taking what we do well for granted in light of the respect we give to others we admire. Stay tuned and I'll get it posted as an addition to the CC sub-forum.

- Mark
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corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:29 pm    Post subject: Me Reply with quote

mark do you think a lot of the problem is players trying to be someone else, instead of themselves? i think just being yourself is hard enough. it great to listen to many players and styles of music, then take a little from each of them. maybe players are affraid to show themselves, share there emotions, we need to step to the side and let our selfs bye. instead of holding up our lives. i think a lot of players get discouraged when they practice, and practice. but still doesn't sound like jaco, or wes, or george. either they quit, or realize they just need to be themselfs.
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