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Blues Meets Jazz ("Mini" Lesson)

 
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 6:37 pm    Post subject: Blues Meets Jazz ("Mini" Lesson) Reply with quote



To get things underway in the Lesson Central area and as a way of saying thanks to all those participating in our new forum, this is a "mini" lesson based on the opening pair of licks from my "Smoke Detector" solo. The tune itself is one of many bass-driven groove originals I've composed over the years. Head/melody in Wes-style octaves, followed by plenty of Benson and sax influences in the solo (full transcription will be made available in an upcoming series).

To hear the mp3 lesson audio with vocal narrative, click here. To hear the complete song and full-length solo, click here.

Enjoy and thanks again for supporting our efforts in the new Vision Music Community Forum!

- Mark
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 1:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark,

I'm trying to get my head around this. As you said in the second riff you relate it to Dm, but as I try to relate everything to math (math makes sense to me..Laughing) but what I see is is an F (b9) moment, followed by most simplistically described as C diatonic (or C major pentatonic) for the remainder of the riff.

I'm not understanding the Dm thinking? Could you clarify ever so briefly please? I dunno?
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Mark
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorecki wrote:
I'm trying to get my head around this. As you said in the second riff you relate it to Dm, but as I try to relate everything to math (math makes sense to me..Laughing) but what I see is is an F (b9) moment, followed by most simplistically described as C diatonic (or C major pentatonic) for the remainder of the riff.

I'm not understanding the Dm thinking? Could you clarify ever so briefly please?


Brian,

Sure thing. I was referring to using "jazz language" in that scenario, which stems from the IIm (Dm) of the home key of C. The "F (b9) moment" (Gb) you refer to is really just an example of the most common passing tone associated with bebop, in this case connecting the G and F. If you were to just play and sustain the Gb, it wouldn't be a passing tone, eh?

Now, while you can indeed analyze part of a lick like this from a scalar point of view (pentatonic), that same scale model won't apply to every situation. What you're really after is superimposing a minor sound in the spirit of Pat Martino, George Benson and others, and theoretically all twelve tones are legal (no wrong notes) if it sounds right.


- Mark
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 2:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So in so many words, thinking in the scope of Dm blues, it would be a forth to a major third 'blues move' for that moment? This sounds familiar! Razz
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gorecki wrote:
So in so many words, thinking in the scope of Dm blues, it would be a forth to a major third 'blues move' for that moment? This sounds familiar!


Brian,

Okay, I wouldn't reference the Dm with blues for that particular phrase. Like I said, it stems from jazz language and is related to the all-important II-V progression. It's more "inside" (or melodic) in overall personality, as opposed to blues.

In a nutshell, I keep everything on a simple sound basis as much as possible, because it's all-encompassing and explains whatever I hear in a melody, lick, solo, bass line, etc. This was after years of trying the more academic classroom approach, which only succeeded in tying my brain up in knots. Laughing

So there are three sounds: Major, Minor, and Dominant. That covers all keys and chords I encounter. Then there are three colors that can be used or blended over each sound: Inside, Outside, and Blues. In the case of that specific lick, it's D minor on the inside track. The first lick is A minor and blues. Others may look at it differently due to enharmonic relationships, but this is what has worked so effectively for me, and hopefully the proof is in the way things sound to the listener. All for now...

- Mark
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 12:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark,

Great lick!

In your reply to Brian, does that mean that you think of short two-fives as minor licks based off of the "two" chord?

Also, I've noticed in transcribing that players sometimes use the bebop (mixolydian with both major and minor 7ths) over the "two" chord. It seems like that's what you're doing here. In our private lessons, we've talked about how similar the two and five really are (just one note different). Is that why it's ok to play a lick you would often think of as a "five" lick over a "two" chord? Or am I misunderstanding something?

I tweaked the two-five portion by changing the sixteenths to eights, and adding a C-major lick at the end and found that this lick sounds pretty good over a long two-five-one also.


thanks
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Dave Illig



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
it would be a forth to a major third 'blues move' for that moment?


You are scaring me. If I had to think like that on two chords in one measure I might have to quit playing.


Dave
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Illig wrote:
Quote:
it would be a forth to a major third 'blues move' for that moment?


You are scaring me. If I had to think like that on two chords in one measure I might have to quit playing.


Oh goodness Dave, you can jazz circles around me.

This is in and of its self part of my issue at present, I over analyze everything!

But it's conducive of what I do! For every one thing that is intended to happen, I'm the guy who finds the twenty things that are not!

The positive is I can look at things from many directions and be able to communicate things many ways! But if I can't just 'shut up and play my guitar' it doesn't help my progress in performance much. Laughing
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Brad Kinder



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very nice Mark!

Like you mentioned, I've picked up on Green, Wes, Burrell, Martino and Benson doing a lot of this type of thing. Just playing off the ii chord and pretty much ignoring the V chord altogether. To my ears it's that 4th played over the V chord that gives it that bluesy sound. I've read in books where they teach that as an avoid note Shocked. You'll also hear players just focus on the V and ignore the ii for more of a bebop sound.
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Dave Illig



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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
But it's conducive of what I do! For every one thing that is intended to happen, I'm the guy who finds the twenty things that are not!]


I know, I was just teasing you. My son is a programmar, I deal with that analytical mind all the time. It is a great thing,,,,,,,,,sometimes. Smile

Dave
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Mark
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nylonjazz wrote:
Great lick!

In your reply to Brian, does that mean that you think of short two-fives as minor licks based off of the "two" chord?

Also, I've noticed in transcribing that players sometimes use the bebop (mixolydian with both major and minor 7ths) over the "two" chord. It seems like that's what you're doing here. In our private lessons, we've talked about how similar the two and five really are (just one note different). Is that why it's ok to play a lick you would often think of as a "five" lick over a "two" chord? Or am I misunderstanding something?

I tweaked the two-five portion by changing the sixteenths to eights, and adding a C-major lick at the end and found that this lick sounds pretty good over a long two-five-one also.


Nylon,

Thanks! "Short" two-fives (i.e. Dm7 to G7 - two beats apiece) typically have more tension and a need to resolve, so they are not as applicable nor flexible in other improvising situations, like this one. Of course, there are always exceptions, so I'm making a general statement based on past experience.

In that lick example, even though it can theoretically be analyzed from the V chord, I'm thinking and hearing D minor all the way. Yes, the IIm7 and V7 chords are VERY close cousins. For instance, you can view the notes in a Dm7 chord (D, F, A, C) from the perspective of the G7 chord and simply call it a rootless G11, or a G9sus. It's that one note (C) that makes the difference.

Good job using the entire idea to resolve to C. As a matter of fact, just change the last note from A to G (inside) or a higher C (blues) to hear the effect when resolving into C. Btw, this move is right out of the Benson playbook, and if you listen to and transcribe his music you'll hear him play these kinds of clichés in both changes and vamp/modal situations. Everything I do nowadays is based on imitation and observation, then blending things my way in solos and original tunes.

- Mark
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Mark
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 07, 2007 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brad Kinder wrote:
Very nice Mark!

Like you mentioned, I've picked up on Green, Wes, Burrell, Martino and Benson doing a lot of this type of thing. Just playing off the ii chord and pretty much ignoring the V chord altogether. To my ears it's that 4th played over the V chord that gives it that bluesy sound. I've read in books where they teach that as an avoid note. You'll also hear players just focus on the V and ignore the ii for more of a bebop sound.


Brad,

Thanks, and you are right on the money, my friend. In my book there's no such thing as an "avoid" note, because you can do something musical with any note you play if used in the proper context. This is precisely where scale-based thinking falls FAR short and becomes more of a prison than a source of creative freedom.

Early on my late father advised that I learn some II-Vs if I ever wanted to play over jazz changes. At first it seemed contrived because I was mainly (and still am) a blues guy at heart, but as I religiously transcribed the players you mentioned and so many non-guitarists, I saw the wisdom of Pop's II-V suggestion. Not only could I play over changes, but it was clear that players like Benson and Martino had found a way to manipulate their jazz language in a much broader manner than I had ever imagined. And to my ear it all stemmed from minor sounds and superimposition.

It's actually a very simple, effective approach once you understand the connections. Btw, try playing that lick as a great move over an altered 7th (E7#5, E7b9, E7#9) in the key of A minor, and you'll see/hear that thinking D minor and using your jazz language is another altered dominant option.

- Mark
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