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The Value of Writing

 
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 12:41 pm    Post subject: The Value of Writing Reply with quote

I have been struggling for a while trying to figure out if it makes sense to write out what I transcribe. My typical way of transcribing is to listen to a phrase slowly (using Transcribe! software), sing the phrase, and then try to figure out as much of it as I can without the guitar. Then I work it out on the guitar and go to the next phrase. My goal is to be able to play along with the recording, even if it's at a slow speed.

Sometimes I write the phrases down; sometimes I don't.

What is the value of writing things down? On the one hand, you create a "lick library," on the other hand, you can't cover as much material.

Figuring out chords is much easier if you transcribe the bass line first. Then listen for the chord color. If you're not sure if a note is in the chord, sing the note. If it's hard to sing over the chord, chances are it's not in the chord. Another trick is to sing guide tone lines (3rds and 7ths) through the progression to check your work. There is a great video on the market by Roberta Radley about how to do harmonic dictation.

The benefits of doing this have been that I am better able to hear what others are doing, and I don't get lost in charts like I used to (because I can hear what the progressions are).

What are your thoughts on this subject?
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still a student, but here's my experience to date:
If my goal is to pull the head from a CD and I can do so without transcribing it, that's all I do. Given my lack of memory cells, I always transcribe a given line or song if I think I'll want to play it again. The unintended result is that all of this transcribing has improved my reading a great deal. I think it comes from laboring over a measure for a half hour, struggling to get that one bit of syncopation just right.

I've done what you describe, using the bass line to figure out a chord. Sometimes I think bassists are the most knowledgeable about chords because the have to play them one note at a time, while we guitarists snap our hands to the board in preforms.
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:47 pm    Post subject: Re: The Value of Writing Reply with quote

nylonjazz wrote:
What is the value of writing things down? On the one hand, you create a "lick library," on the other hand, you can't cover as much material.

What are your thoughts on this subject?


Nylon (and Larry),

First of all, thanks for participating in our new forum. As almost all of my students know, 99% of what I play, arrange, compose, and teach stems from transcribing. The greatest benefit historically is simply learning by ear and playing along with your chosen influences, in the spirit of Wes, Pass, Benson, etc. This is where you pick up all of the intangible elements that transcend any particular solo, head, lick, etc. These great icons of jazz guitar never wrote anything out and could barely read music.

Having said that, transcribing itself transcends any one instrument. Many of my mentors are non-guitarists (e.g. Oscar Peterson, Bird, Trane, Miles, etc), and my father was a horn player with a great ear who could also read and write fluently. Part of my ambition to write what I was hearing was based on them and my belief that music is indeed a language. For instance, although our ability to speak and listen is critical to communication, imagine not being able to read this message, a newspaper, or a book. Imagine not being able to write a simple email.

From a practical standpoint, my two main reasons for writing what I learned by ear was to develop my understanding of timing and phrasing, critical areas that still elude the majority of guitar players, and of course to document my work for future reference and for teaching purposes. It also doesn't hurt that writing what you hear accelerates your reading ability beyond belief, something that only a transcriber would know.

Writing remains an option, because the focal point is always the ear, so my advice to those new to transcribing is to follow in the footsteps of those great guitarists (and so many others). In other words, don't even attempt to write something until you've learned it thoroughly by ear first.

- Mark
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I absolutely agree that the ear (or the singing voice is the first step). In practice, I find most jazz lines easy to write down once I've figured them out, but time consuming (i.e., not a lot of challenge, but the software is cumbersome). Blues is another story. It's a real pain to write down slow blues, because the rhythms are complex. I think there may be advantages to two different methods: (a) figuring out solos and just playing along with the recording; and (b) writing things down. Writing things down, however, doesn't make sense if the material is easy to figure out and your memorization will be better aided by playing along. Writing down complex slow blues rhythms (at least for me) is challenging and well worth the effort.

BTW, the trick to figuring out complex rhythms is to listen to the drums. the drummer subdivides the beat. Get your notes within the subdivided beat and then sing them. You can get a pretty good approximation from that, which often is good enough. I'd rather hear the interaction among instruments than get my notation flawless.
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Dave Illig



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 11:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HMM,, I should have read these before I posted in transcribing.

Dave
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sat Sep 29, 2007 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave, I totally understand. "Transcribing's" own worst enemy is it's name. The name is deceptive, because many consier transcribing to include any copying of mentors by ear (as opposed to sheet music or other materials). I remember taking "transcribing" classes in college -- that was literal transcribing, and believe me, it had much less value to a jazz or blues player than "pulling language off of records and playing along."

It doesn't make that much difference if you write it down. The important part is to drink it in. Get the phrasing and language, however you best learn them.
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