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Struming six note chords on nylon string classical

 
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mel1



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject: Struming six note chords on nylon string classical Reply with quote

When playing chord melody jazz ballads that are not so chord dense that the tune would need to be rearranged as a fingerstyle tune does anyone playing a nylon string guitar use any fingers besides the thumb to strum through a chord.

When a lighter sound is needed does anyone use another finger such as the index finger. The nail gives a lighter sound similar to a strum with a pick. This is similar to a rasgueado down stroke in classcal or flamenco but with just one finger.

I have not seen a discussion of playing full six string jazz chords on classical guitar in any of my fingerstyle or jazz guitar materials. Some would probably advise rearranging the tune for the instrument but those chords sound so lush and the sound seems to be the essense of jazz chord melody playing.

Just curious as how others have approached this.
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 9:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Struming six note chords on nylon string classical Reply with quote

mel1 wrote:
When playing chord melody jazz ballads that are not so chord dense that the tune would need to be rearranged as a fingerstyle tune does anyone playing a nylon string guitar use any fingers besides the thumb to strum through a chord.

When a lighter sound is needed does anyone use another finger such as the index finger. The nail gives a lighter sound similar to a strum with a pick. This is similar to a rasgueado down stroke in classcal or flamenco but with just one finger.

I have not seen a discussion of playing full six string jazz chords on classical guitar in any of my fingerstyle or jazz guitar materials. Some would probably advise rearranging the tune for the instrument but those chords sound so lush and the sound seems to be the essense of jazz chord melody playing.

Just curious as how others have approached this.


Hi! I'm always going back and forth between doing chord-melody work on a jazz archtop and a nylon-string classical. While I use a wide variety of right-hand approaches (fingerstyle, thumb, pick) depending on what kind of sound I wish to hear, it's rare that I am employing "full six-string jazz chords" exclusively.

However, if I'm strumming that kind of chord on a nylon-string in a jazz context, I rarely use the back of the index fingernail as you describe (although I commonly do that when playing flamenco). For me, I prefer changing the angle of my thumb between all-flesh for a soft sound to a combination of nail and flesh for a brighter attack. I also frequently simulate a strum fingerstyle on a six-tone chord by rolling the thumb across the bottom three strings followed by index, middle, and ring fingers in rapid succession across the remaining three strings. Each approach creates a unique color, but the bottom line in all of this is the resulting sound.

- Mark
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mel1



Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark.

I probably need to work more on the thumb technique to get control of the attack and tone. The example I gave of six strings was not the norm for an entire song since there can be single notes and three to four note chord movements in the melody.

Two chord melody arrangements by Wes Montgomery had these full chords although at times a note or two was muted. The songs were Mi Cosa from Guitar on the Go which has a nice Spanish sound and I've Grown Accustomed to Her Face from Full House which also has a Spanish sounding intro and amazingly he transitions smoothly into the melody.

It appears that Wes played these with his thumb but both sound good played fingerstyle giving a more piano type punch to some of the chord runs. I am currently playing these two songs as solo guitar pieces.
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Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mel1 wrote:
It appears that Wes played these with his thumb but both sound good played fingerstyle giving a more piano type punch to some of the chord runs. I am currently playing these two songs as solo guitar pieces.


Wow, don't get me started with Wes. Wink I wouldn't even know where to begin in describing Montgomery's profound influence on my work over the years, but until recently it's been mainly in three areas:

1) The extensive use of octaves in interpreting melodies and in jazz solos.

2) The use of "call & response" phrasing, a Wes trademark in both his compositions and solos.

3) Rhythm accompaniment using the thumb for the percussive sound that Montgomery made famous.

When I recently hooked up and jammed at Wolf Marshall's place with my great friend from Chicago, Henry Johnson, I was astounded at what he was doing with his thumb on my brother's nylon-string classical guitar. Let's just say that for a guy who doesn't even own that kind of guitar, it was quite an inspiring and humbling experience to hear a guitarist whom many deem "the second coming of Wes" face to face. Ever since then I've been taking HJ's advice and devoting daily time expanding my use of the thumb, and with great results I might add.

Well, I could share a myriad of Wes-inspired recordings with you and other forum members, but here's an unreleased, octave-based rendition of Thelonious Monk's classic Round Midnight that I hope you enjoy. For the record, I also play this beautiful tune arranged for solo nylon-string guitar, but done fingerstyle. All for now...

- Mark
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, after hearing that ,I am going to go out and get a room at the Hilton,call a escort service,order a bottle of wine,and record that ,loop it so she and I can set and talk about it.That's how good it was to me.Coarse my wife will probable rune the experience,by not letting me get a room.
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Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dean wrote:
Mark, after hearing that ,I am going to go out and get a room at the Hilton,call a escort service,order a bottle of wine,and record that ,loop it so she and I can set and talk about it.That's how good it was to me.Coarse my wife will probable rune the experience,by not letting me get a room.


Funny stuff, Dean! Laughing Glad you liked the track. Speaking of wives (Janice and I just celebrated our 36th), Wes, octaves, and sharing, I attribute much of my Montgomery-influenced progress to the "Just the Two of Us" instrumental guitar duo that we had back in the eighties. Here's a then and now (two years ago) pair of photos:



I'll let you guess which one of us looks a bit older. Wink Seriously, back then I played perhaps 80% of the heads/melodies we performed in Wes-style octaves. Besides pop tunes, we did many of the classic ballad and latin standards, including most of Jobim's bossa nova compositions. The blend of octaves against fingerstyle nylon-string guitar accompaniment was both full-sounding and warm. Of course, I've also arranged those tunes and hundreds of others for solo guitar, done exclusively on the nylon-string.

I see it all as the best of both worlds, and a great way to interpret this timeless, beautiful music. So as my advanced jazz students well know, I've authored an entire "Wes Lives" octave series dedicated to interpreting swing, latin, and ballad classics. Right before I left for SoCal and the NAMM show earlier this year, I recorded a version of Jobim's How Insensitive. I arranged a brief chord-melody intro based on the end of the head, followed by the melody in octaves and a single-line solo chorus against a piano trio. Hope you and the others enjoy it! All for now...

- Mark
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I see we have another thing in common,my wife and I have been married for 32 years this June.Check these out.




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Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dean wrote:
I see we have another thing in common,my wife and I have been married for 32 years this June.Check these out.


Dean,

Great shots! Thanks for sharing...

- Mark
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Dave Illig



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Um, we have been married 34 years. My wife is a saint and has put up with a lot!! This picture is us backstage on gig I played with the Lennon Sisters about 30 years ago. (She is the one holding the promo card) The other ladies are two of the Lennon Sisters and the old man was my neighbor. He was in heaven being back stage with them. I bet nobody even knows who they are! [/list][/url]
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