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Double Stops
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Bob Parsons



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 27
Location: Anchorage, AK

PostPosted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Double Stops Reply with quote

Alan Holdsworth stated in the latest Guitar Player that it takes him about 2 years to integrate a phrase into his stage language. I sure can identify with that. Single note passages seem to take a lot of time to develop as "hip pocket" material. Yet, I just studied Body Talk by GB for the umpteenth time and decided to concentrate on double stops. Those dbl stops showed up at the gig almost the next night. Does anyone have a clue as to why? And have you found that on the gig dbl stops are always "there" for you?
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 8:20 am    Post subject: Re: Double Stops Reply with quote

Langnickle wrote:
Alan Holdsworth stated in the latest Guitar Player that it takes him about 2 years to integrate a phrase into his stage language. I sure can identify with that. Single note passages seem to take a lot of time to develop as "hip pocket" material. Yet, I just studied Body Talk by GB for the umpteenth time and decided to concentrate on double stops. Those dbl stops showed up at the gig almost the next night. Does anyone have a clue as to why? And have you found that on the gig dbl stops are always "there" for you?


What a GREAT post that resonates with one of my all-time favorite topics! As my students and colleagues well know, I've been a self-confessed double-stop "junkie" for as long as I can remember, dating back to my first exposure to GB, Kenny Burrell, Grant Green, Oscar Peterson, Jimmy Smith, and many others.

I can understand double-stops getting into your playing faster than single-note phrases, because like chord shapes they are more visual and relate to the percussiveness of the guitar.

Thanks for starting this thread, and I'll be very curious to hear what others have to say about the impact of double-stops, and even what kinds of double-stops they like to use? All for now, but I've got a LOT more to say on this subject. Wink

- Mark
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Dave Illig



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I LOVE double stops. They have punch and can really get a listeners attention. I think dblstps are so easy to integrate because they are like little chords and don't require a lot of conscious thought. They are also great vehicles for repetitive, rhythmic grooves, a la George Benson and a host of others.

Another great thing about double stops is there ability to cut through the band. I almost feel like I can compete with the sax when I use them.
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being an amateur player, I can't relate to the gig thing, but I'm heartened to hear that even the pros need time to integrate certain ideas into their playing. I also notice that double stops become part of my playing DNA a LOT faster than single lines. I think it's because I played mostly rock, blues and funk in my formative years, so anything "new" is really a variation of a cliche.
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Bob Parsons



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Location: Anchorage, AK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:07 pm    Post subject: Dbl Stops Reply with quote

Mark's comment on the percussive nature of the dbl stp(DS) hit home. Really a DS is more of a right hand phenom than left -- unless you're talking a prolonged Freddie King "Stumble" or "Hideway" passage. So maybe that's why it integrates more naturally? Gig or bandstand adrenalin can be disapated via the right hand more easily for me and it helps establish my coordination between hands.
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't want to sound like a complete idiot, but could you define double stop.I think I know what your talking about,but not completely sure.Thanks
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Bob Parsons



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Location: Anchorage, AK

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 7:31 pm    Post subject: Dbl Stops Reply with quote

Hey Dean,

I b'leve that double stop simply means playing two notes at the same time.
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
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Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2008 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok,that's what I was thinking.I use it quite a bit.I think the reason it works so well,is because,it has a larger voice as apposed to a single note.IMO when playing single notes they have to tie together to make a statement,and a double stop is a sentance all on its own.When playing single notes there is so much to consider,length,timing,many or a few,etc.I fight with myself all the time ,to many notes not enough,and so many other things just to solo over a piece.
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave Illig wrote:
I LOVE double stops. They have punch and can really get a listeners attention. I think dblstps are so easy to integrate because they are like little chords and don't require a lot of conscious thought. They are also great vehicles for repetitive, rhythmic grooves, a la George Benson and a host of others.

Another great thing about double stops is there ability to cut through the band. I almost feel like I can compete with the sax when I use them.


Dave,

Excellent point, because the guitar can sound "thin" compared to other instruments, especially in jazz when your volume is typically lower and the tone cleaner compared with traditional blues and rock. Nevertheless, rock/blues guitarists dating back to Jimi and SRV made extensive use of double-stops in their compositions and solos.

I've heard enough of your recordings to know that you are well-versed in blues and jazz, and have incorporated double-stops frequently in your work. Feel free to post an example or two of how you use double-stops, and I (and others) can do likewise. I'm certain, to one degree or another, that we are basically on the same page.

Any general comments regarding the type of double-stops that you guys like to use? Like 3rds, 6ths, pentatonic 4ths and 5ths? Tritones? I suppose that even octaves count, since they also qualify as unison double-stops (aka "two-note licks"). All for now...

- Mark
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Dave Illig



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, to hear an example of two of my favorite double-stops used over the first few bars of Miles' All Blues (track courtesy of the JCS page),
click
here

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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 09, 2008 3:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dave ,man you got some sweet tone....and I even caught the double stops.Thanks for the example.
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Dave Illig



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PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 12:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Dean, those two double stops are very easy but pack a lot of punch. In addition to those 3rd and 5th types I also like 6ths a lot. I have blues lick with 6ths that I stole from Joe Pass that works in almost any situation, from country to jazz to blues. Double stops add a lot the guitarists arsenal.

Dave
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Bob Parsons



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Location: Anchorage, AK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 1:21 am    Post subject: Double Stops Reply with quote

Dave. Great Examples. I forget where I first heard of you but became a fan immediately. Gentlemen. This is the video age...

Here's my favorite set of DS's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vYU9NsW1T0
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 5:32 am    Post subject: Re: Double Stops Reply with quote

Bob Parsons wrote:
Here's my favorite set of DS's


Bob, Dave,

Excellent clips, guys! You know, I'd be hard-pressed to cite my favorites, because a lot of it comes down to how they're used in the context of any given solo or head. More on that below, but first a brief story and a bit more about my educational research in this arena.

Years ago I was giving a private lesson to a fine local guitarist (he's actually been on this forum), and we were playing a slow blues together. I applauded his work but pointed out that there was almost a total absence of DS licks in his solo. I told him to come back the following week and play a solo that had at least 50% DS content. He did, and the difference was simply stunning, like night and day.

On the teaching front, most of my friends and students know that GB has been a huge influence on me, and years ago I created a sub-series for my R&B students entitled "Just Double-Stops," based exclusively on about a half dozen of George's blues solos from the sixties. I think GB has played every DS known to guitar players, because he's obsessed with them (like me).

Okay, two related audio clips to share with you guys...

This first one is an excerpt from a medium swing blues solo that I recorded on "Made for Suede," an original tribute in G. Muted octave rake on the high G, a classic B.B. King move, then the same pair of double-stops up front that Dave played. Another well-known major blues keyboard figure, and finally broken octaves a la Benson. This all takes place over bars 7-12 and jazz changes.

The second one is over a static G7 vamp at the end of my "Blues Tripper" original funky blues in the same key. It's a mix of DS licks combined with repetitions and broken octaves once again. Plenty more to share. All for now...

- Mark
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Bob Parsons



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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Location: Anchorage, AK

PostPosted: Thu Apr 10, 2008 6:42 am    Post subject: dbl Stops Reply with quote

those are beautiful mark. they tickle...
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