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Double Stops
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California

PostPosted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 6:07 am    Post subject: Re: Double Stops Reply with quote

Bob Parsons wrote:
Dave. Great Examples. I forget where I first heard of you but became a fan immediately. Gentlemen. This is the video age...

Here's my favorite set of DS's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vYU9NsW1T0


That's a slower Chuck Berry style,slide/ double stop.Cool riff ,I will steal it this weekend.Thanks
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thaydon



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 4:11 pm    Post subject: DS Reply with quote

What I like about DS is that they create a legato (smooth) sound, and can emulate the "spin offs" or legato playing of sax players and some trumpet players. For my taste I like the way Mark and Dave play because they avoid the down/up picking pattern that creates a "stiff" sound.
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Todd
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 9:06 am    Post subject: "Blues for Del" (Kenny Burrell) Reply with quote

thaydon wrote:
What I like about DS is that they create a legato (smooth) sound, and can emulate the "spin offs" or legato playing of sax players and some trumpet players. For my taste I like the way Mark and Dave play because they avoid the down/up picking pattern that creates a "stiff" sound.


Todd,

I just think that the double-stops give the guitar a "larger than life" sound and bring the percussive nature of the instrument to the forefront. That element, plus "call & response" chord punches, has been ingrained in my solos and original tunes from so many years of being influenced by Wes, George Benson, Kenny Burrell, Oscar Peterson, Jimmy Smith, etc, etc.

Speaking of Kenny, one of my favorite Burrell tunes that I teach in my R&B course was recorded on the epic "Blue Bash" (Verve '63) release with organist Jimmy Smith. It's a classic, double-stop based blues head that I love to play.

With that in mind, I hope you guys enjoy my rendition of "Blues for Del" by KB (transposed from the original key of Bb to G). When I was just a teenager sneaking into jazz clubs with my phony ID, Kenny took my request and actually played this tune for me so many years ago. I'll never forget that night, and I can't begin to explain what a great feeling it is all these years later to feel as though I'm now doing it justice. Ciao...

- Mark
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thaydon



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 3:32 pm    Post subject: Double stops Reply with quote

mark;
thanks for the tune, sounds great. Well i played classical guitar long before getting into jazz (i know you play classical also). so my first intro to DS was through transcriptions of violin sonatas and Sor studies (#12 in the segovia edition). I worked on #12 for a long time and teachers pointed out crucial times to slur or use hammer ons to create proper phrasing/legato throughout the piece. so even though DS create a large sound, I hear and appreciate in your playing that several times you slide/slur into DS as well as other areas. For me that is an indication that guitarists have reached a very high level of understanding phrasing and creating nuances, probably through years of listening to horn players or keyboard players.
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
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Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, as usual very cool.I like the slides ,too.I use a lot of slides in my playing ,it make for a cool transition.
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 15, 2008 7:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Double stops Reply with quote

thaydon wrote:
mark;
thanks for the tune, sounds great. Well i played classical guitar long before getting into jazz (i know you play classical also). so my first intro to DS was through transcriptions of violin sonatas and Sor studies (#12 in the segovia edition). I worked on #12 for a long time and teachers pointed out crucial times to slur or use hammer ons to create proper phrasing/legato throughout the piece. so even though DS create a large sound, I hear and appreciate in your playing that several times you slide/slur into DS as well as other areas. For me that is an indication that guitarists have reached a very high level of understanding phrasing and creating nuances, probably through years of listening to horn players or keyboard players.


Todd,

Wow, pardon my lack of memory if you've mentioned your classical guitar background before, but that Sor Study in A (#12) has always driven me nuts. Toughest of the 20 studies in my book, and it used to kill me to hear John Williams play through it so effortlessly. I often felt like I should be frying donuts (no disrespect to donut fryers) instead of playing guitar. Laughing

I got involved with classical guitar when I had been playing for about 3 years (22-years-old at the time). I taught myself originally, then took some private lessons with a member of Segovia's master class at the S.F. Conservatory of Music. At one point I gave up everything to pursue classical repertoire, and at one point had some 250+ works committed to memory, including the Sor Studies. Nowadays I just play a very limited group of pieces and try to keep my chops within reach (30 minutes/wk).

Actually, it was jazz and my appreciation of pianist Oscar Peterson that at least partially drove me into the classical genre, because there were/are so few jazz and blues guitarists with that skill. So I would play these "What if?" scenarios, imagining what kind of impact it might have on my work overall. Of course, along the way I fell in love with the literature. Playing it feels like you've been transported back centuries in time. Nothing like it.

You've probably already heard this, but here's a relatively brief Classical Medley of three simple works, the middle piece ("Adelita" by Tarrega) based somewhat on double-stop figures.

Glad you guys enjoyed the Burrell tune, and thanks for the kind words. I'll share another one with you. "The Soul Factor" is an original funky blues that I also teach in my R&B wing. It was written as a tribute to one of the local pros here and a student of mine. The KB connection is that it's played over the Chitlins Con Carne backdrop, with just bass and drums. I think this head and solo is a solid example of how developing expertise in using double-stops and chord punches can almost eliminate the need for keys or additional chordal accompaniment. KB's influence should be pretty obvious.

- Mark
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thaydon



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 1:05 am    Post subject: DS Reply with quote

Mark,

Thanks so much for sharing your playing. I really like Adelita, and Chitlins is one of my favorite tunes. I also like the live version of Otis Rush playing Chitlins.
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Mark
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: DS Reply with quote

thaydon wrote:
Thanks so much for sharing your playing. I really like Adelita, and Chitlins is one of my favorite tunes. I also like the live version of Otis Rush playing Chitlins.


Todd,

You're welcome. Kenny was one of my first major jazz guitar influences, because of his obvious affinity for the blues and his magnificent tone. And, of course, KB has always made extensive use of double-stops in his work. I feel honored to be following in my mentor's footsteps.

Btw, I have many unreleased recorded examples of heads and solos that use double-stops, so if you and other forum members would like to hear them, just give me the word. I'll also try to get some notational examples published in these posts, and if anyone has specific questions about what they're hearing in these clips or the subject in general, fire away!

- Mark
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thaydon



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:43 pm    Post subject: DS Reply with quote

Mark;

That would be great if gave us some audio clips and notational examples!
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Don MacArthur



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 50

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe every aspiring jazz/blues/rock guitarist should learn and use as many doublestop tricks and licks as they can. You can't play single notes all the time.

Don MacArthur
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:41 am    Post subject: Benson DS Licks Reply with quote

Don MacArthur wrote:
I believe every aspiring jazz/blues/rock guitarist should learn and use as many doublestop tricks and licks as they can. You can't play single notes all the time.


Don,

Couldn't agree more, so let's keep this discussion going. Double-stops really address the percussive side of the guitar, so overall they make strong statements if used properly.

Take a look at this brief excerpt from a recent, funky blues guitar solo in the key of C:



This is over the 9th and 10th bars, when the band moves from the V (G7) chord to the IV (F7) chord. To hear it, click here. Now, these are classic George Benson moves that I teach my R&B students. I learned them many years ago. They work right out of the respective bar positions for any major or dominant 7th chord. Besides the funky, syncopated phrasing, they are very flexible and powerful in that they can be transposed to work against all three chords in a basic blues progression, and can easily be modified for slow, swing, or shuffle rhythms.

Note how the licks are similar, but not direct mirrors of each other, either harmonically or rhythmically. They also represent one of my favorite dynamic approaches to this part of a blues progression, because while the harmony moves down, the lick goes up instead of descending.

Btw, this solo is from an original tribute to guitarist Kenny Burrell, and part of the new Monster Guitar Solo series. You can hear the full solo and several others at that page. Enjoy!

- Mark
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thaydon



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 80
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:14 pm    Post subject: DS mini lesson Reply with quote

Wow, Mark thanks for the mini lesson. It is another application of spinning similar licks but with different variations etc. you also covered this idea but with single note soloing in a LBM in the first part of the swing blues series. so it is nice to see another example to further my understanding.
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
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Location: California

PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 5:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark, thanks for the solos.The sunny is cool,but I love on broadway.I have always like that song and JB playing it ,just makes you feel it .He played it at NAMM and you could not wipe the smile off my face for sometime.He took me to another place,I did not even feel my pain for awhile.Real music does that to you ,yea know.
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Don MacArthur



Joined: 10 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the example Mark.

It is nice to see and hear some real life applications of double-stops. I think I'm getting the idea but please post more!

Don MacArthur
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Re: "Blues for Del" (Kenny Burrell) Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


Speaking of Kenny, one of my favorite Burrell tunes that I teach in my R&B course was recorded on the epic "Blue Bash" (Verve '63) release with organist Jimmy Smith. It's a classic, double-stop based blues head that I love to play.

With that in mind, I hope you guys enjoy my rendition of "Blues for Del" by KB (transposed from the original key of Bb to G).



Mark,

I just added the 'Blue Bash' album to my collection after hearing 'Satin Doll' with
Jimmy Smith and Kenny Burrell ('Organ Grinder Swing' release).

Also picked up 'Downstairs (Master Take)' from 'Guitar Forms.'
I love its 'jazz-a-billy' flavor. Keep it bundled with Chet Atkins,
Herb Ellis & Duke Robillard, Martin Taylor (arr; Tennessee Waltz chord solo)
and others.

Thank you for the 'Blues for Del' file.

Here is my sound file contribution to the 'DS' discussion.
I stole some of these 'Memphis Blues' phrases from Chet Atkins
and I'm blending with a 1930s/1940s Jimmie Rodgers/Hank Snow style.


http://specialneedsinmusic.com/xfers_temp/Kb_memphis_blues_atkins_rodgers_08_0509.mp3
(reworking this audio sample)

-kb


Last edited by kbgtr001 on Mon May 19, 2008 8:16 pm; edited 1 time in total
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