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Dean
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California
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 Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry_DC wrote: | | Dean, do you do any transcribing? One of the hidden benefits to it is that as you spend time notating other people's music your reading skills will slowly but surely improve. Reading blues used to intimidate me because of all the tuplets. After studying a few of Mark's blues lessons I realized it's not as difficult as it first seemed. I began transcribing blues songs in addition to jazz and now it's a lot easier to read them. The key elements are patience and dogged determination. |
Larry, I must admit ,I have not done any transcribing yet...and I get the benefit of doing it.I guess it comes down to ,I really do not know how to start.I will be seeing my son soon,and will have a talk with him to help me get started.I was hoping my buddy would come down and start me off.Not tring to cop out ,just not sure how to start.Thanks for asking ,because it keeps me on track to do it.Just a side note....I have been lowering my drugs ,and this is helping me focus better.It is hard to learn when your brain drifts off on you.hahaha Guitar is my therapy,keep the discussion going as this forum is a good part of my therapy ,too.
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Mark
VM Coach
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 7:01 pm Post subject: Re: Getting Yourself Started |
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| Dean wrote: | | I was hoping my buddy would come down and start me off.Not tring to cop out ,just not sure how to start.Thanks for asking ,because it keeps me on track to do it. |
Dean,
Make a personal "Transcribing To Do" list of some of your favorite artists and recordings. Your list will be different than mine, Larry's, or anyone elses. That's the beauty of transcribing as a means to an end, because it allows you to take lessons with whomever you choose (living or dead).
Next adopt my "Getting Yourself Started" philosophy, committing 10-15 minutes per day to transcribing, and put a checkmark next to any item on your list that you've started. Not completed, mind you. If there's anything I've learned over the years, it's that we put things off for any number of reasons, but often all it takes is a few minutes to get the inspiration flowing. So to me the goal is to start, because eventual completion is a foregone conclusion once you get started.
Two more things...
1) When you limit yourself to 15 minutes max in a challenging area, you radically reduce the frustration factor, because logically your expectations remain low based on the light time investment. Great psychologically. You can always ramp up the effort later, and you will because it becomes addicting.
2) Don't tackle things that are totally out of your league or that you won't be able to readily apply. Since you dig the blues, you could just go after some favorite blues licks from one or more artists. And always tell yourself that success lies in the effort, because if you only get 5% of what you hear B.B. King playing, that's 5% MORE than what you had before. Plus you just took a private lesson from the King of the Blues and developed your ear at the same time. I'd call that a "win-win" any day of the week!
- Mark
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Dean
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:38 pm Post subject: |
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Mark, If I understand you, transcribing is just learning by ear and writing it down.Ok then ,now we have a start.Thanks for the info ,I will let you know how it goes.Buddy Guy cd, song Feels like rain,and we are off.
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Larry_DC
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Dean, what software are you going to use? I have had great success using Transcribe! to slow the music down and Sibelius G7 for the notation. Both programs feature a short ramp up time with plenty of utility. |
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Dean
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Larry_DC wrote: | | Dean, what software are you going to use? I have had great success using Transcribe! to slow the music down and Sibelius G7 for the notation. Both programs feature a short ramp up time with plenty of utility. |
I have a Tascam CD-GT1 guitar trainer right now ,but I am getting pro tools in a couple of weeks.Not sure all I can do with it yet.Thanks for the info.
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Mark
VM Coach
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Wed May 07, 2008 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Ear & Writing |
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| Dean wrote: | | Mark, If I understand you, transcribing is just learning by ear and writing it down.Ok then ,now we have a start.Thanks for the info ,I will let you know how it goes.Buddy Guy cd, song Feels like rain,and we are off. |
Dean,
Just a footnote after reading your post and Larry's software suggestions...
When we (Brian Gorecki and yours truly) first established the initial topics for the forum, I purposely entitled the one pertinent to this subject "Transcribing & Learning by Ear." So yes, the term transcribing does suggest writing down what you've learned by ear, but it's VERY important to realize that some of the greatest blues and jazz guitarists in history never wrote anything down. The latter group would include the likes of Wes, Benson, & Pass. And it's rare to find an R&B guitarist who knows how to read or write at all. Of course, there are tremendous benefits to writing out your discoveries, which I've been doing for as long as I can remember.
My point is to go after the ear part first and foremost, just like those great players did years ago, because it's a direct connection that allows you to immediately benefit from what you're learning. Even for my students who are excellent writers and readers (e.g. Larry), I always suggest that they first be able to play along with the artist, which is what I do myself. Then what you really end up notating (if you do write it out) is what is now in your own head, and therefore part of your language vocabulary. Believe me, when it comes to high-quality study, it's hard to beat any part of the transcribing process, which probably accounts for over 90% of what I know as a player/coach. Just think... everything you'll learn is something that YOU want to learn and something that you would proudly play for someone.
Btw, definitely take Larry's advice and get a copy of Transcribe for learning by ear. It's hands down the best product out there, and dirt cheap for what it does. All for now...
- Mark
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Dean
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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As usual,thanks to all for the great information.The path is getting brighter and shorter, not a circle any more.
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Dean
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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I'am doing a piece for class...12 bar blues in E and am working on a solo.The rub comes, less notes or more notes.We were pared up and did it on the fly Wednesday.One of the students is still learning the blues scale,so she played very few notes ,and I thought it was one of the best ones played.Any thoughts on finding a happy medium.
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Larry_DC
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Since we're talking about quantity vs. quality, the speed or number of notes is secondary to what they are saying. Your friend that played such a good solo with very few notes is a perfect example. Ever hear Muddy Waters play "I Can't Be Satisfied" on his acoustic? He says so much with those 3 notes there's no need for more. |
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Mark
VM Coach
Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: More vs Less |
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| Dean wrote: | | Any thoughts on finding a happy medium? |
Dean,
Even though I'm in total agreement with Larry on the "less can be more" philosophy, the most important thing in my book is what is being said and how it's being delivered. I mean, playing less notes really doesn't guarantee anything except for the fact that it's easier for the listener to process and digest what they're hearing. However, it's still better to err on the less side, because playing too many notes is an easy way to cover up a lack of ideas or message, sadly all too common in many guitar solos. 
For me, the ultimate goal is for EVERY note (or rest) to count and to be played with passion and conviction, regardless of the density or speed of a solo. When I first heard SRV play, I was completely struck by the sound of a single note. That's all I needed to hear. However, even if you transcribe a dense piano solo by someone like Oscar Peterson, you'll also find that every note means something. No fluff whatsoever.
Conclusion? You can play less and say nothing memorable, or play more and say something meaningful. Or vice versa. It's the content and delivery that counts most, so that should be the goal. All for now...
- Mark
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Dean
Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 7:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have been working on it ,and have decided to go the slow hand approach.Milk certain notes and put more feel into it.Make it cry a little.
Thanks for the input....makes sense to me.
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nylenny
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| I really don't think it's a matter of how many notes you play. It's the importance of each note. Check out the Good Vibes series for example. There are lots of notes, but lots of ideas, and every note counts. No fluff. There are great players that use a lot of notes, which is terriffic. Many great players don't play many notes, which is fine too. There also are many players that play fast to cover up poor harmonic content, which is not good. |
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Don MacArthur
Joined: 10 Apr 2008
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Sat May 10, 2008 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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We only have so much time to devote to our instruments. If I was going to live to be a 1000 years old then maybe I'd want to practice playing a scale until I knew it in all 12 keys like most "teachers" say your are suppose to do - then again I probably would still not go that route but instead concentrate on playing solid, cool sounding lines that have already proved their weight in gold - i.e. those already used by the greats like GB, KB, WM, etc. I think these guys are great because at an early part in their development they had already figured out that improvising via scale method was not going to cut it!!
Don MacArthur |
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Brad Kinder
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 62
Location: Richmond, VA
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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I've never been one to write stuff down but I wish I had just for organization purposes. I've always had a listen, learn it and use it approach but a lot of ideas just don't stick in my memory for some reason. Hopefully the thousands of ideas I've taken off records are in my subconscious somewhere and not lost. I think writing this stuff down would help in that regard and obviously it benefits your reading/writing skills to boot.
+1 on Transcribe. I've used it for many years...great program!
A couple of practice ideas that I've found useful...
To really get a line into my head. I'll learn it in a few positions and then practice it around the cycle while singing or scatting along. Do that a few times and they seem to stick pretty good.
I'll recycle licks and try to apply them to different chord types.... a cmajor idea over Am or Am idea over D7 would be some basic examples. I've noticed players like Wes and Grant Green were doing this stuff quite a bit. Taking the same simple idea and milking it for all it was worth in different situations. |
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Larry_DC
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| You guys listen up when Brad talks. I think he was the Guitar Center Blues King last year. |
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