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Comping and Walking Bass
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:23 pm    Post subject: Comping and Walking Bass Reply with quote

How do you approach comping on new tune?
I have to admit I have hard time learning how to comp over
new song. I know several chord shapes and some connecting
ideas but apart from standard jazz blues I cannot really comp
any new standard on the spot. Or play walking bass/chords type
of comping on them.
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm still learning, but I tend to approach comping the way Joe Pass described the process. I try to come up with the bass line first, then follow up by dropping t he chords underneath. Sometimes I fall into a chord shape that I like that in turn makes me alter the bass line to accommodate it.
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

One of the Jim Ferguson books "All Blues for Jazz Guitar" has some good
comping ideas. But just for jazz blues. There is one book in Aebersold
series: "Maiden Voyage - Guitar Voicing" that has all the guitar parts
from the "Maiden Voyage" volume (Impressions, Summertime, Watermelon
Man, Song for My father, Satin Doll, Maiden Voyage, Cantaloupe Island,
Footprints, Doxy and Autumn Leaves plus handful Aebersold's tunes).
Perhaps the way to go would be to study these arrangements and then
extrapolate the ideas to create my own comping for new standards.
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Apr 17, 2008 6:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Comping and walking bass. Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:
How do you approach comping on new tune? I have to admit I have hard time learning how to comp over new song. I know several chord shapes and some connecting ideas but apart from standard jazz blues I cannot really comp any new standard on the spot. Or play walking bass/chords type of comping on them.


JT,

First of all, thanks for starting a topic thread in this area of the forum, as arranging anything is such a superior way to utilize valuable study time and walk away with something that you can actually use in a "real-world" playing context.

Harmonically speaking, when it comes to chords for comping standards related to jazz, make the "short chords" (aka "shell" voicings) your first choice. So root bass on either the E or A strings, 3rds and 7ths in the melody on the G string, and no 5ths. Do this for major 7ths, 6ths, minor 7ths, minor 6ths, and dominant 7ths, giving you only five choices for each bass string, and ten overall.

Next, open up a fakebook every day, choose anything from Satin Doll to Giant Steps, and comp using only the voicings I described. Don't even consider anything more complex until you can handle any tune or tempo with these foundational building blocks for jazz guitar comping. They're easy to play, easy on the mind, and the voicings never clash with pianists. Plus they're perfect for walking bass line accompaniments and they always sound great while outlining the harmony of any jazz-related standard.

To me, the short chord/shell voicings are the jazz equivalent to the bar and power chords associated with rock 'n roll. When you want to expand your knowledge of voicings, that's where chord-melody arranging comes into play. More later...

- Mark
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 12:04 am    Post subject: Re: Comping and walking bass. Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Harmonically speaking, when it comes to chords for comping standards related to jazz, make the "short chords" (aka "shell" voicings) your first choice.

Next, open up a fakebook every day, choose anything from Satin Doll to Giant Steps, and comp using only the voicings I described. Don't even consider anything more complex until you can handle any tune or tempo with these foundational building blocks for jazz guitar comping.


Thanks Mark - that is effective advice. I just tried Blue Bossa with shell
(no 5th except of course b5) chords at it is a fact that simplicity of the
voicing allows for MUCH easier connections - finding common tones
or start inserting short bass lines. Or adding notes on higher strings for
melody. But you are right - you gotta create base - simple chords you
can always rely on.
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:47 am    Post subject: Re: Comping and walking bass. Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:
Thanks Mark - that is effective advice. I just tried Blue Bossa with shell (no 5th except of course b5) chords at it is a fact that simplicity of the voicing allows for MUCH easier connections - finding common tones or start inserting short bass lines. Or adding notes on higher strings for melody. But you are right - you gotta create base - simple chords you can always rely on.


JT,

You're welcome. I'm always looking for methods to make the complicated simple, the way jazz bass legend Charles Mingus defines creativity. It's obviously a good philosophy to embrace if you're an educator, especially in jazz and given the perceived complexity of the genre.

Btw, tunes like Blue Bossa (or Sugar by Stanley Turrentine) that use min7b5 chords work well with this chord approach, because you really don't have to include the b5 to outline the harmony. I was just discussing this recently with Mr. Marshall, a brilliant chordal thinker who studied with the legendary George Van Eps.

Okay, speaking of bass lines, take a look at this brief excerpt from the upcoming revision of my "Four On Six: Walking Bass for Jazz Guitar" collection:



Note the use of shell voicings in the first four bars of this Ellington classic (I purposely kept the bass line independent for analysis), and bear in mind the fact that you can easily add one or more tones above the G string to create specific melodies. So many possibilities, and that's just harmonically.

Next, take a look at the same four bars with potential right-hand rhythm syncopations:



All options, both harmonically and rhythmically, can literally be mixed and matched bar by bar, but it all begins with the utter simplicity and power of these "short" but highly-effective chord voicings. All for now...

- Mark
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Dave Illig



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 4:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh my, this is a huge subject! I just spent the last three years in a five piece band with bass, drums, percussion, guitar and sax. I was the only guy comping. I look at it as three separate situations. Comping without a bass player, comping with a bass player and comping with keyboard or organ. I am now playing with some keyboard players again and the transition has been painful. I just got in from San Diego and don't have time tonight to address this. I will post something tomorrow.

Dave
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Comping and walking bass. Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Btw, tunes like Blue Bossa (or Sugar by Stanley Turrentine) that use min7b5 chords work well with this chord approach, because you really don't have to include the b5 to outline the harmony. I was just discussing this recently with Mr. Marshall, a brilliant chordal thinker who studied with the legendary George Van Eps.


Thanks again Mark - nice arrangement!
As for min7b5 chords actually in eg. Blue Bossa you can play
b5 ib bass (on 6th string) and it make some sense in some cases.
For blues bass lines here is a little DIY bass kit:
http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/Jazz/Improv/219/244BassLinesF.pdf
http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/Jazz/Improv/219/244BassLinesBb.pdf
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 9:20 am    Post subject: Re: Comping and walking bass. Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:
Thanks again Mark - nice arrangement!
As for min7b5 chords actually in eg. Blue Bossa you can play
b5 ib bass (on 6th string) and it make some sense in some cases.
For blues bass lines here is a little DIY bass kit:
http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/Jazz/Improv/219/244BassLinesF.pdf
http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/Jazz/Improv/219/244BassLinesBb.pdf


JT,

You're welcome, and thanks for the links. I just checked out some of the bass line examples and they are very sound harmonically. Don't take my comments lightly, because I've learned bass from the likes of Ray Brown, Ron Carter, Sam Jones, Paul Chambers, etc, and unlike some guitarists I believe that every single note in a bass line is critically important.

Speaking of walking bass lines and comping, back in '96 we recorded a jazz duo (sax/guitar) CD entitled "An Evening To Remember." It sold over 40,000 copies that first year, but when we eventually re-released it as "Tenderly" we left off two of our better efforts.

One of the omissions was Jerome Kern's classic "All the Things You Are," and our arrangement was heavily-influenced by the epic version done by Hank Garland and Gary Burton so many years ago. We replicated the neo-classical feel by having me do fingerstyle tremolo on the initial A section chords, followed by sax melody against walking bass w/chords on the bridge, then guitar chord-melody and baroque sax on the final head section. After that it's off to the solo races, which included a full chorus of fours that entailed yours truly moving back and forth between jazz walking bass accompaniment and fingerstyle jazz improvisation (no easy task Wink).

Very few of my students and fans have heard this rendition, but I just uploaded it for you guys. To hear it, click here. Hope you enjoy it!

- Mark
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Comping and walking bass. Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:

For blues bass lines here is a little DIY bass kit:

http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/Jazz/Improv/219/244BassLinesF.pdf

http://www.music.sc.edu/ea/Jazz/Improv/219/244BassLinesBb.pdf




JT,

Nice Links. Thanks.

Very much like Mozart's 'Melody Dicer' game;

http://www.carousel-music.com/PubMozart.html


'Composers and Crap Shooters';

http://www.carousel-music.com/shooters.html


-kb
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 8:42 am    Post subject: Walking Bass w/Chords Reply with quote

Hi! I thought you guys might enjoy this little 12-bar accompaniment demo of C Jam Blues, featuring a walking bass line with chords. However (and as you'll clearly hear), I'm doing this on an actual bass, something I've enjoyed doing "on the fly" for many years.

You have to be a bit more judicious with regards to the chord voicings used to avoid a muddy-sounding result, so I generally play less chords and voice them higher on the fingerboard than when I do this on guitar. You can probably imagine the reaction I've gotten in live situations. Wink

- Mark
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Fri May 16, 2008 3:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Walking Bass w/Chords Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Hi! I thought you guys might enjoy this little 12-bar accompaniment demo of C Jam Blues, featuring a walking bass line with chords. However (and as you'll clearly hear), I'm doing this on an actual bass, something I've enjoyed doing "on the fly" for many years.

You have to be a bit more judicious with regards to the chord voicings used to avoid a muddy-sounding result, so I generally play less chords and voice them higher on the fingerboard than when I do this on guitar. You can probably imagine the reaction I've gotten in live situations. Wink

- Mark




Mark,

Thanks for the 'C Jam Blues' accompaniment audio sample. I'm adding it to my 'Transcription To Do List.'
Immediately clear is the 'Ellington' Ending, as described in your VM members lesson;

http://visionmusic.com/members/lessons/ellington.html

- Two bars already taken care of for the 'transcription', only ten
more to do Wink -

When will the 'Four On Six: Walking Bass for Jazz Guitar' revisions be available?
I'm interested to have the 'C Jam Blues' (and others).


-kb
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 5:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Walking Bass w/Chords Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
When will the 'Four On Six: Walking Bass for Jazz Guitar' revisions be available? I'm interested to have the 'C Jam Blues' (and others).


Kb,

The jury's out for me right now on the book revision, because I'm now contemplating the idea of adding quite a few new titles, mp3 audio demos, and possibly marketing the arrangements as a series of independent eBooks, based on the great success of both the Good Vibes Jazz Solo and Monster Guitar Solo series. If I go with that format, I can actually get the arrangements released as they're revised, plus explore the option of doing LBM (Lessons by Mail) editions with a full-blown explanatory narrative.

Otherwise it may be a long time before a complete revision of the book itself is available. Just too many high-priority goals and not enough time. Know the feeling? Laughing

- Mark
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote

Quote:
he jury's out for me right now on the book revision


Mark, I have the original version of the book. I really like it. Are you still selling the original?
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Walking Bass for Jazz Guitar Reply with quote

nylenny wrote:
Mark, I have the original version of the book. I really like it. Are you still selling the original?


Len,

Not presently. I do have a prototype format for the revision using a Finale PDF eBook. Unlike the original, which was in bass clef with chord grids, this one is in treble clef and includes both the grids and tab (for the bass line only). It's just a very low priority for me right now, although if I go with the option of selling them as independent arrangements I won't have the stress of completing an entire book prior to release.

- Mark
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