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Benefits of Recording

 
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Dave Illig



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 67
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 3:52 pm    Post subject: Benefits of Recording Reply with quote

When I began recording my playing there was an instant benefit. I have become a big believer in recording. It has made a tremendous difference in my playing. It has helped me on many levels.

First, analytically listening to my own playing was eye (ear) opening. Emotion gets in the way when I play. There I am in the music room jamming along with a backing track to Joy Spring thinking I am just tearing it up. It would go like this; man Wes, eat your heart out, you wish, there is a record contract around the corner, whew, there is a new jazz cat on the scene, etc. Then I would play it back and it was horrible!! I hated to hear myself play. While I still don’t like to hear myself, I record weekly. Not just jamming either, I lay down lines over and over and over until they sound right. When I hear something I don’t like, I go to work on it and fix it.

Here are a few of the things that recording has helped me with: Timing, note choices, phrasing, song memorization and structure. It is also helpful because I can send tunes to other players and get their feedback.

Dave
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 6:43 pm    Post subject: Re: benefits of recording Reply with quote

Dave Illig wrote:
There I am in the music room jamming along with a backing track to Joy Spring thinking I am just tearing it up. It would go like this; man Wes, eat your heart out, you wish, there is a record contract around the corner, whew, there is a new jazz cat on the scene, etc. Then I would play it back and it was horrible!! I hated to hear myself play.


It works both ways - sometimes you play very uninspired stuff but
then every now and then you do everything right. For me listening
to such good take is great help and motivation to overcome dry
spells. I listen to it weeks later when I already forgot how I did all
the playing and I think "Man! I sound GREAT here!" And I go back to
woodshedding.

JT
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 8:08 pm    Post subject: Re: benefits of recording Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:
It works both ways - sometimes you play very uninspired stuff but then every now and then you do everything right. For me listening to such good take is great help and motivation to overcome dry spells. I listen to it weeks later when I already forgot how I did all the playing and I think "Man! I sound GREAT here!" And I go back to woodshedding.


JT,

Good to see you here. Even though we haven't worked together too long, one of my frequent references is to the A.R.T. (for "ARTistic") approach, and that stands for Arranging, Recording, and Transcribing. To me, those are the three most critical areas that guarantee sustained growth on a daily basis. Transcribing represents an unlimited source of core language. Arranging involves putting it together your way and applying that knowledge. Recording is all about documenting your progress, especially from an objective point of view.

When we hear ourselves while playing, it's an entirely different experience than when we listen after the fact. What you think sounds cool often sounds terrible, yet you can go on for long periods of time deluding yourself unless you make yourself aware of it. That's precisely where recording rears its head, because the second the ugly truth is revealed, your natural tendency is to eliminate it. And did I say right now? Smile

On the other hand, there are those good things we play that each of us take for granted, but recording underlines them and therefore makes us aware of our strengths as well as our weaknesses. By recording regularly and confronting reality from a neutral position, it's a constant "out with the bad - in with the good" process, and even after all of these years of playing I see major improvements in my work as a direct result of recording.

- Mark
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2008 7:16 pm    Post subject: Re: benefits of recording Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

...one of my frequent references is to the A.R.T. (for "ARTistic") approach, and that stands for Arranging, Recording, and Transcribing. To me, those are the three most critical areas that guarantee sustained growth on a daily basis. Transcribing represents an unlimited source of core language. Arranging involves putting it together your way and applying that knowledge. Recording is all about documenting your progress, especially from an objective point of view.

When we hear ourselves while playing, it's an entirely different experience than when we listen after the fact. What you think sounds cool often sounds terrible, yet you can go on for long periods of time deluding yourself unless you make yourself aware of it. That's precisely where recording rears its head, because the second the ugly truth is revealed, your natural tendency is to eliminate it. And did I say right now? Smile

On the other hand, there are those good things we play that each of us take for granted, but recording underlines them and therefore makes us aware of our strengths as well as our weaknesses. By recording regularly and confronting reality from a neutral position, it's a constant "out with the bad - in with the good" process, and even after all of these years of playing I see major improvements in my work as a direct result of recording.

- Mark


Here are two samples I think are relevant to this discussion.

'Wildwood Flower Mix'; the 'transcribing' category. I added my guitar to an existing recording (Anita Carter group circa: 1963).
End of the verse A section into the B section, I doubled up an octave higher to create a '12 string' effect.
No editing, other than a fade-in/fade-out.

----

'Simple Gifts' (composer, Joseph Brackett 1848. Arr by Aaron Copland, for 'Appalachian Spring' Ballet); the 'arrangement' category.

I'm working on a 'folk style' arrangement with my Pianist colleague, Kaila.
First position chord melody on a Martin Acoustic Steal String with a pick.
The use of a capo at the second fret creates a 'harpsichord' like quality
when mixed with the piano.

http://specialneedsinmusic.com/xfers_temp/Ivory_Simple_Gifts_excerpt.mp3

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_Gifts

The 'piano' is the 'Ivory' software instrument (VST/RTAS) we use in Pro Tools.

http://synthogy.com/products/ivorygrand.html


-Kb


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Last edited by kbgtr001 on Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Thu Jul 24, 2008 6:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Benefits of Recording Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
I'm working on a 'folk style' arrangement with my Pianist colleague, Kaila. First position chord melody on a Martin Acoustic Steal String with a pick. The use of a capo at the second fret creates a 'harpsichord' like quality when mixed with the piano.


Kp,

VERY nice! Many of my students and fans are unaware of my longtime affinity for folk music. My first two "good" acoustics were Martin steel strings, a D35 and a D18, and back in those early days I played a lot of music that blended folk, gospel, pop, country, and the blues (of course Wink ). My fascination with fingerstyle is probably what led to classical and latin pursuits, although the nylon-string guitar became my acoustic instrument of choice.

During the nineties when I signed a deal with Sugo Music (Stevan Pasero's record label), I composed quite a few original acoustic instrumentals that combined those genres. Also at least a dozen latin compositions. Some of my best work, although I have yet to record the majority of that material. All in good time...

- Mark
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:44 am    Post subject: Re: Benefits of Recording Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Kp,

VERY nice! Many of my students and fans are unaware of my longtime affinity for folk music. My first two "good" acoustics were Martin steel strings, a D35 and a D18, and back in those early days I played a lot of music that blended folk, gospel, pop, country, and the blues (of course Wink ). My fascination with fingerstyle is probably what led to classical and latin pursuits, although the nylon-string guitar became my acoustic instrument of choice.

During the nineties when I signed a deal with Sugo Music (Stevan Pasero's record label), I composed quite a few original acoustic instrumentals that combined those genres. Also at least a dozen latin compositions. Some of my best work, although I have yet to record the majority of that material. All in good time...



Mark,

Thanks, man.

I had no idea that you are a 'Folkie' Wink , Although I'm very much aware of
quite a few folk/bluegrass musicians who have found their way to jazz (+jazz blues) study/performance.

Knowing this now, I can hear that root in your very 'natural' jazz blues line expression; very vox.
I think this 'grassroots music' is good place to be. Not much 'rationalizing' (over intellectualizing),
more about hearing and playing. Perhaps it would an interesting niche to carve here at VM.

I must pay my due respect to Mark Hanson for his beautiful finger-style arrangement of
'Simple Gifts' that I've worked as a reference to develop my own arrangement/interpretation.

Keeping on topic, here is a brief 'Wildwood guitar sample' I've
added my new bass too. I'm about a month and half into my bass experience.
Look forward to applying the 'A.R.T.'


http://specialneedsinmusic.com/xfers_temp/wildwood_bassline_example_08_0725.wav


-Kb (p)

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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kb,

Nice Wildwood Flower" arrangement, Mother Maybelle would approve. I played lots of folk and bluegrass in my college days. That song was one of our favorites.
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 7:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Folk Meets Jazz? Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
I had no idea that you are a 'Folkie' Wink , Although I'm very much aware of quite a few folk/bluegrass musicians who have found their way to jazz (+jazz blues) study/performance.

Knowing this now, I can hear that root in your very 'natural' jazz blues line expression; very vox. I think this 'grassroots music' is good place to be. Not much 'rationalizing' (over intellectualizing), more about hearing and playing. Perhaps it would an interesting niche to carve here at VM.


Kb,

I've always been fairly eclectic, although historically there's a stronger connection between country (western swing) and jazz than dedicated folk music and that genre.

Nevertheless, the two worlds can merge. For instance, long after I had been doing folk vocals with guitar accompaniment and had gotten into arranging standards, it was only logical to return to my roots and do likewise with regards to popular folk songs. However, my growing affinity for pretty jazz chord voicings made me seek tunes that lent themselves to those textures, as opposed to triads.

Check out my rendition of Paul Simon's classic Old Friends to hear one such example, done as a rubato ballad. I changed the key from Eb (death on guitar Wink) to D to facilitate a bigger sound on the acoustic.

On the other hand, I stayed more true to tradition with my version of Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now, done in time and using standard tuning in the key of A, avoiding her penchant for alternate tunings. Pretty far removed from Trane's "Giant Steps," eh? Laughing

Btw, I teach both of these tunes in the Guitar Solo wing of the Lessons by Mail program. All for now...

- Mark
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Fri Jul 25, 2008 11:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Larry_DC wrote:
kb,

Nice "Wildwood Flower" arrangement, Mother Maybelle would approve. I played lots of folk and bluegrass in my college days. That song was one of our favorites.


Larry,

Thanks, man. 'Wildwood Flower' is a 'core standard'; sort of like a 'Satin Doll' of the Bluegrass/Folk world.
Interesting to meet others on the crossover/migration path. I'm sure, more to discuss on this topic.


-Kb

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Last edited by kbgtr001 on Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 12:17 am    Post subject: Re: Folk Meets Jazz? Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
I stayed more true to tradition with my version of Joni Mitchell's Both Sides Now, done in time and using standard tuning in the key of A, avoiding her penchant for alternate tunings. Pretty far removed from Trane's "Giant Steps," eh? Laughing

Btw, I teach both of these tunes in the Guitar Solo wing of the Lessons by Mail program. All for now...


Mark,

Beautiful arrangement of 'Both Sides Now.' I think her 'open/alt tuning' approach works very well for her vocal/stage presentation style.
Your key choice has big sound, and flows like a vocal piece.

-Kb

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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2008 5:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Folk Meets Jazz? Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
Beautiful arrangement of 'Both Sides Now.' I think her 'open/alt tuning' approach works very well for her vocal/stage presentation style. Your key choice has big sound, and flows like a vocal piece.


Kb,

Thanks, my friend. I've had quite a few compliments regarding the BSN arrangement over the years, and the comments most gratifying have been from those in the fingerstyle guitar community.

- Mark
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