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Developing a Jazz Feel

 
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Developing a Jazz Feel Reply with quote

Is transcribing and then playing along with the artist a good way to develop a jazz feel (placement of notes relative to the beat, phrasing, touch, etc.)?

How conscious should a student be of what the performer is doing when playing along? For example, Dexter Gordon seems to stretch notes in heads and play behind the beat. Should I make a mental note of where he does that, or just groove along with his playing?
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California

PostPosted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is for the playing along part of your question.I would not take what I say as the best advice,but when I solo over blues tunes,I just stay within the rhythm.As long as you bring it back to the one beat,and end on the key note,it seems to work.What I mean by the rhythm,you can hear a players accents in the rhythm,and phrase your licks within the phrasing.If you go outside of the phrase ,you just keep going till you come to the next one beat to tie it together.As you can tell,I'am not as good at explaining myself,or talk the language as most on here.I hope you can get what I am trying to say,if it makes sense at all.Simply, I don't think it matters,as long as you can pull it back in, at someplace in the song.
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who are great players to transcribe if my goal is to learn to be able to play behind the beat more consistently (i.e., relative to the beat) and fluidly?
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've noticed from transcribing a number of Miles Davis' solos that he played behind the beat a lot. It drove me crazy trying to notate accurately. I finally realized it's more important to feel what is going on than to try to nail that dotted 1/128th note.

I never thought about it before, but Billie Holiday would be a possibility.
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Larry. I'll check those out. It's interesting that you mentioned Billie Holiday. I find it much more difficult to transcribe voice and wind instruments than guitar, vibes, piano, or most anything else.

I've had the same experience transcribing when it goes behind the beat. Do you write it on the beat, or struggle to get the rhythm exact? I've found that if I listen to things slow, my tendency is to over-notate. I find it easier to listen at speed, then sing the line. Then I transcribe what I sung. My notation is a little less exact, but more what a mainstream transcription would look like.
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Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:44 pm    Post subject: Being a "Story Teller" Reply with quote

Dean wrote:
I hope you can get what I am trying to say, if it makes sense at all. Simply, I don't think it matters, as long as you can pull it back in, at someplace in the song.


Dean,

Yes, your explanation does make sense to me, because my entire goal is to tell a story and get an emotional message across to the listener, one that they can relate to and experience. So you want to strive for strong harmonic content and great phrasing seamlessly blended within your solos. Recording frequently has been a HUGE part of that for me, because I'm able to sit back and evaluate from a listener's perspective, entirely different than when you're "in the moment" and just blowing it out.

Good topic, and regarding Len's original question about "playing along" with an artist to develop a feel for jazz? Absolutely, and the same is true for other genres as well. I'll never forget reading that Leonard Feather interview with Chick Corea, and how Chick described his obsessive learning process during the sixties. He'd spend at least a year studying exclusively with a favorite piano mentor, and said he wasn't satisfied until he could play along so closely that you couldn't tell that there were two pianos.

It was reading "true confessions" like that from a great artist that drove my inspiration and willingness to work to higher ground. After all, if even the best musicians (who were obsessed beyond belief) learned that way, what does that say about the right path for the rest of us? Wink

- Mark
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Which guitarists derive their sound largely from playing behind the beat?
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat May 17, 2008 10:17 pm    Post subject: Re: "Elastic" Timing Reply with quote

nylenny wrote:
Which guitarists derive their sound largely from playing behind the beat?


Len,

I can't name one who consciously plays behind the beat. However, some of my favorite players (Benson, Peterson, etc) often exhibit an elastic quality in the way that they playfully phrase, sometimes behind or ahead of the beat, but not in a predictable manner. All for now...

- Mark
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