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Using a Metronome

 
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 11:31 am    Post subject: Using a Metronome Reply with quote

What is the best way to use a metronome? Should the click be on each beat? Or should you only have the click on 2 and 4? What about having the click play only once a measure (for example, on the downbeat of one)? I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's opinion.
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Gorecki
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Glenwood, MD

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 2:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess I would have to respond with a question, what is the purpose in using the metronome?

Often it's to establish good timing, feel for tempo and responding to them reliably, second nature so to speak. Also to have a sense/feel for different time signatures at various tempos. So what beat the pulse falls into is relative.

Otherwise, they're not a lot of fun frankly. Laughing

Generally I use BiaB as a glorified metronome with a rhythm section as a means of all the above plus harmony.
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Dean



Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 287
Location: California

PostPosted: Thu Oct 30, 2008 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a back ground CD and try to play in real time.It is a lot of fun.
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:19 am    Post subject: Re: Using a Metronome Reply with quote

nylenny wrote:
What is the best way to use a metronome? Should the click be on each beat? Or should you only have the click on 2 and 4? What about having the click play only once a measure (for example, on the downbeat of one)? I'm looking forward to hearing everyone's opinion.


Lenny,

If you must use a metronome, which I don't recommend, have it click on 1 and 3 or just 1 if the tempo is really fast. The idea is always to react to those beats (aka "call & response"), and the idea of practicing with it clicking on 2 and 4 is one of the biggest myths in music education.

- Mark
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 2:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Using a Metronome Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
If you must use a metronome, which I don't recommend, have it click on 1 and 3 or just 1 if the tempo is really fast. The idea is always to react to those beats (aka "call & response"), and the idea of practicing with it clicking on 2 and 4 is one of the biggest myths in music education.- Mark


Mark,

Can you elaborate on that? Before there were jam tracks I used a metronome religiously while developing speed and timing skills. A couple of issues ago in Just Jazz Guitar the "beats 2 and 4" method was suggested.
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Mark
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Using a Metronome Reply with quote

Larry_DC wrote:
Can you elaborate on that? Before there were jam tracks I used a metronome religiously while developing speed and timing skills. A couple of issues ago in Just Jazz Guitar the "beats 2 and 4" method was suggested.


Larry,

No problem. This is something that Henry (Johnson) and I have discussed at length. Despite what you and others may have read or heard in some supposedly "credible" guitar circles, the premise when improvising is to react to the strong beats (1 & 3), not the backbeats (2 & 4). Since you're just getting into the bass, listen to any good jazz bass solo to hear how they answer those strong beats in their phrasing. Same goes for good horn and keyboard improvisers. Frankly, I don't know where this myth ever got started that you should use a metronome or tap your foot on 2 & 4, because doing so just gets in the way of your phrasing.

Of course, if you ever watch an accomplished jazz guitarist tap their foot while playing, you'll note that it's often in cut-time on 1 & 3, or at very fast tempos simply on the first beat. There are exceptions. Emily Remler made a big deal out of 2 & 4 (metronome) in an early educational video, but later changed her philosophy after soliciting advice from players like HJ and others. And with all due respect to Pat Metheny, there's a video where he puts a metronome down on the stage and then proceeds to play several choruses of a capella swing blues with it ticking on 2 & 4. Now, his adoring fans in the audience may roar in approval, but to my ear it sounds like a total mess from a phrasing standpoint.

Conclusion? Whatever works, I suppose. Wink However, this is something that I've given a lot of thought to, and like anything else I learn most by observing my mentors. It's all kind of a moot point, because I fully agree with Brian (Gorecki) that using a metronome is no fun and that ensemble backup is the way to go. All for now...

- Mark
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Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, that makes sense on the 2 & 4 issue. But what about metronomes in general? I used mine a all the time while trying to ramp up my speed on a lot of LBM lessons and found it to be a useful measure of progress. If I didn't have BIAB or jam tracks I would probably still be using it.
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Mark
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Metronomes Reply with quote

Larry_DC wrote:
OK, that makes sense on the 2 & 4 issue. But what about metronomes in general? I used mine a all the time while trying to ramp up my speed on a lot of LBM lessons and found it to be a useful measure of progress. If I didn't have BIAB or jam tracks I would probably still be using it.


Larry,

Fair enough, and I've logged more than my share of time doing likewise in years past. But let's say you're working on some new jazz licks or on the head of a tune and trying to get both up to speed. Why not use actual jam tracks and (in the case of BIAB) just adjust the tempo? Or in the case of licks just choose a faster tune, or a slower one if you wish to double-time?

I'm not directing these questions to you, because obviously that is what you're doing nowadays. To me it just makes a lot more sense to practice using environmental tools that at least simulate the real thing. No one's going to be performing with a metronome. It may serve a limited purpose to keep time and measure growth in an academic manner, but when it comes to jazz it's a poor substitute (given today's choices).

- Mark
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corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 23, 2008 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

instead of a metronomes i find drum machines or d/l drum loops off the web. a drum machine has at least 100 pre programed drum loops. or you can program your own. do a search on the internet for free drum loops.
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have found differences among drum machines, midi tracks, and recorded rhythm sections.

With a drum machine, you get the same drumbeat each measure, unless you program something else in. A good drummer will play a fill to signal a repeat or section.

Recorded midi tracks often lack the "walking in two" feel on a head, or rhythmic kicks so common in jazz heads.

For my money, the best bet is live recorded rhythm sections.

I just picked up the four-volume backing tracks for "The Real Book." It is beautifully played and recorded (unfortunately, there are no musician credits). Unfortunately, it's a bit expensive ($100 for all four volumes), but still a good value. You may want to check it out.
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

corky4strings said:

Quote:
instead of a metronomes i find drum machines or d/l drum loops off the web. a drum machine has at least 100 pre programed drum loops. or you can program your own. do a search on the internet for free drum loops.


There is a pitfall I've found with both drum machines and metronomes: you can miss some important rhythmic subtlety.

Here's an example: I recently transcribed the bass line for "Golden Lady" by Stevie Wonder. While transcribing, I noticed that the sixteenth notes were "swing 16ths:" the second and fourth sixteenth were a little late. Had I not gone through the trouble of transcribing the part, it is a subtlety that I may have missed (at least consciously) and may have not programmed into a drum machine.

BTW, the best (software) drum machine I've found is Reason. It has lots of good drum samples, and the sequencer is powerful and intuitive.
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can find decent backing tracks on Ralph Pratt's webpage:
http://www.ralphpatt.com/Backing.html
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kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sun Jan 25, 2009 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

woland99 wrote:
You can find decent backing tracks on Ralph Pratt's webpage: http://www.ralphpatt.com/Backing.html

JT,

Thanks for the link.

-Kb
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