Vision Music Forum Index Vision Music
Community Forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Charlie Parker
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Vision Music Forum Index -> Transcribing & Learning by Ear
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 12:39 am    Post subject: Re: Pencil & Paper? Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
I'm in your camp with the pencil and paper approach. I buy the eraser top mulitpacks. I use the software (Finale) to 'make it pretty' after the fact; if it's necessary. Software notation consumes valuable time.


Kb,

You and Corky are in great company. My good friend Wolf Marshall is perhaps the greatest guitar transcriber (and author) of our time, and he still does all of his initial notation with pencil and paper. That's what I did for many, many years myself. However, nowadays I typically have Transcribe up in one window and Finale (or Encore) up in the other.

Whatever works is the bottom line, eh? Since so much of what I produce currently goes directly into lesson material and eBooks, scoring by hand is just one more step that I no longer have time to take. Oh, btw... software notation only consumes valuable time if you're too slow at it. Wink With well over 5,000 computer-based charts under my belt, it's actually slower for me to do it the old way. Til next time...

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark i found out what finale is. but couldn't find anything about encore. what is encore used for? thanks corky
_________________
corky




let your fingers do the walking i do
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 2:16 am    Post subject: Re: Encore Reply with quote

corky4strings wrote:
mark i found out what finale is. but couldn't find anything about encore. what is encore used for? thanks corky


Corky,

Encore was originally developed by Passport Designs and is now owned by GVOX (www.gvox.com). Finale and Sibelius are considered the heavy hitters in the scoring arena nowadays, but I still like Encore for some things and used it for almost every online score here at VM.

Of course, all of these scoring programs are fairly expensive ($400 to $500), which is why Sibelius offers an affordable entry-level program in G7.

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2008 7:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for the link mark.
_________________
corky




let your fingers do the walking i do
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark what version of finale are you using? theres like 4-5 different ones. thanks
_________________
corky




let your fingers do the walking i do
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Finale Reply with quote

corky4strings wrote:
mark what version of finale are you using? theres like 4-5 different ones. thanks


Corky,

I have the latest Finale (2009) for Mac OSX, but am also using a much earlier version (2003) on my older G4 running OS9.

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i d/l the demo note pad to try it's only $10.00. the instr. don't sound that bad. trying this and the g7 demo. but think its easier to use a pencil and eraser.
_________________
corky




let your fingers do the walking i do
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

corky4strings wrote:
i d/l the demo note pad to try it's only $10.00. the instr. don't sound that bad. trying this and the g7 demo. but think its easier to use a pencil and eraser.


Corky,

Just depends what your purpose happens to be. If it's just to jot something down quickly it's not an issue at all. However, one of the things that's easy to overlook is how beneficial it is to hear what you've written for the sake of accuracy. I was already a solid sight-reader before using any notational software, but there's no question that my ability skyrocketed after I began to use it regularly.

Plus it's only "easier" to use a pencil and eraser because that's what you're used to. The parallel for me, given my long background in the literary field, is to compare writing an article by hand versus using a word processor. It may feel more organic to do the former, but there's no question that the latter is far faster and more powerful in the long run. Same thing with writing music, at least for me. Wink

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 11:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks mark something to think about. the only sound i get from my pencil is when the point breaks.
_________________
corky




let your fingers do the walking i do
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Corky,

Software notation has so many benefits over hand writing. One thing, it's nice to be able to save your work as a MIDI or PDF and email the sound file along with the score to your friends and neighbors. Plus you can change a note an infinite number of times without having those messy eraser marks or holes all over the place.


Last edited by Larry_DC on Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:21 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 1:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yea i'm getting tennis elbow from sharpening the pencil all the time. i got 2 demos to try i like the sound of the instruments in g7 kontact edition. 80 bucks not to bad.
_________________
corky




let your fingers do the walking i do
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

corky4strings wrote:
yea i'm getting tennis elbow from sharpening the pencil all the time. i got 2 demos to try i like the sound of the instruments in g7 kontact edition. 80 bucks not to bad.

Corky,

When it's all said and done, I would rather have a notation software than not have it.
My pencil, manuscript paper, and inexpensive battery operated pencil sharpener are always nearby,
but the notation software certainly has it's advantages. These days, getting started is much easier
and the pdf/online references can help a user navigate pretty quickly. Having a good understanding of music terms as applied to scores helps
that process along even more. I came in at a time (a while ago) when the only references were a big stack
of books that cross referenced each other. That involved a major time commitment and some other stuff.

The 'Sibelius G7 Kontakt Edition' seems like a really good place to start.
See how it works for you. There are certainly good online support forums around
to get you doing what you need to do.

-Kb
-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kbgtr001 wrote:
I came in at a time (a while ago) when the only references were a big stack of books that cross referenced each other. That involved a major time commitment and some other stuff.


Kb,

That had to be Finale, right? Laughing The early versions (90's) were beyond ridiculous, with exactly the multiple manuals (4-5?) and cross referencing you describe. It was just the opposite of the intuitive programs I was using, like The Copyist by Dr. T (Atari 1040ST circa '85) and then Encore in the early nineties on a Mac. The Finale learning curve was steep and famous for a long time, despite Coda's claim year after year that each new version was finally easier to use.

I wish I still had it, but one of my bass students several years wrote a hilarious piece describing a phantom conversation with a frustrated Finale user and Coda tech support. I mean, doing the simplest things required extensive manual reading, and even then everything seemed buried in a sea of nestled menus. But that was long ago. They got it together. Now it's my favorite notation program, mainly because the desktop publishing and precise layout tools are SO good. In that regard I like it much better than Sibelius, but each program has its good/bad points. All for now...

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
kbgtr001



Joined: 04 May 2007
Posts: 122

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Kb,

That had to be Finale, right? Laughing The early versions (90's) were beyond ridiculous, with exactly the multiple manuals (4-5?) and cross referencing you describe. It was just the opposite of the intuitive programs I was using, like The Copyist by Dr. T (Atari 1040ST circa '85) and then Encore in the early nineties on a Mac. The Finale learning curve was steep and famous for a long time, despite Coda's claim year after year that each new version was finally easier to use.

I wish I still had it, but one of my bass students several years wrote a hilarious piece describing a phantom conversation with a frustrated Finale user and Coda tech support. I mean, doing the simplest things required extensive manual reading, and even then everything seemed buried in a sea of nestled menus. But that was long ago. They got it together. Now it's my favorite notation program, mainly because the desktop publishing and precise layout tools are SO good. In that regard I like it much better than Sibelius, but each program has its good/bad points. All for now...


Mark,

Yes, Finale; It was everything you describe and more Shocked

The whole experience now is light years from where it was then.
I think the Finale's real improvement accelerated when the serious competition
came along; i.e Sibelius. In the 90's the 'arrogance' of Coda software 'tech support'
was infamous too.

My story gets a little more interesting. A few years prior to the Finale adventure,
I was doing music copy work on 'onion skin transparencies' in pen and bottle ink with
an electric eraser. I did most of my scores in school that way. Still have my old gear.

At some point back then, I brought my work to the Musicians Union in New York for
an 'audition.' I had been doing notation work by hand for jazz ensembles, newsletters (I was a clerk at
the Institute for Studies in American Music, Brooklyn College) , and others. People suggested I take my work 'on the road.'

The Musicians Union rep set an appointment for me with one of the big
Broadway copy houses. I took my audition and did really well. In the meeting room,
which had that strong 'bottled ink' aroma, there were maybe eight or ten people sitting at
their own individual drafting desks copying out scores and parts for Broadway shows.
The 'boss' looked over my work; said it was very much like his when he was younger.
We had some discussion about music and he offered me a job. I never went
back. I'm glad I turned off that path all those years ago. Then Finale came along.

I'm now considering Sibelius in some form for it's Pro tools connection.
We'll see.

-Kb

-
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 4:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

kb thanks for the words of experiance, i've been trying the demos of G7,and finale notepad. i move more to the G7 side of notation. have a great day
_________________
corky




let your fingers do the walking i do
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Vision Music Forum Index -> Transcribing & Learning by Ear All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Page 2 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group