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What is Swing

 
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 5:45 am    Post subject: What is Swing Reply with quote

I've noticed that, as tempos increase, the amount of "swing" decreases. At fast tempos, swing eights become straight eights. Also, I have heard that Metheny has said that many jazz students "overdo" swing -- to the point where it sounds like an impersonator with a bad French accent.

Swing at regular tempo is a triplet feel. But what does it really mean in context of the above? Should one get the triplet feel exactly, or is swing something that is only learned through careful listening?
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memorary



Joined: 20 May 2008
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To my knowledge, the amount of the swing feel, or, in other words, how hard you swing, has changed over the past decades. Typically, Coleman Hawkins and Lester Young are mentioned for swinging really hard. The next generation (Charlie Parker, Dizzy Gillespie, etc.) less so, and next generation (Miles Davis John Coltrane, etc.) even less. But perhaps it is a matter of a personal call. Mathematically, it can be said that swing lies between standard triplet feel and straight eight note feel, but, again, I believe that it is up to you/us how to swing. BTW, does Metheny swing at all???
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:53 pm    Post subject: Re: Swing? Reply with quote

memorary wrote:
But perhaps it is a matter of a personal call. Mathematically, it can be said that swing lies between standard triplet feel and straight eight note feel, but, again, I believe that it is up to you/us how to swing. BTW, does Metheny swing at all???


Jiri,

Good one! Laughing Okay, to me there are two ways of looking at the swing factor. One is purely mathematical, because it's generally true that triplet-based swing 8ths become more even at quicker tempos, becoming closer to straight 8ths at very fast tempos. However, I also agree that it's somewhat of a personal call, and it's something that I really don't think about. I just play and let my ear be my guide.

That philosophy leads me to my second point, which underlines the famous Duke Ellington tune title, "It Don't Mean A Thing" (If It Ain't Got That Swing). That deals less with the technical explanation of timing and the more important feel and emotion in the music. For instance, even though it's usually reserved for jazz, my father used to use the word "swing" to define any genre of music as a means of measuring how the music was affecting him and other listeners. So that could be applied to country, rock, funk, latin, etc, etc, regardless of the differences in rhythm.

- Mark
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

Quote:
I also agree that it's somewhat of a personal call, and it's something that I really don't think about. I just play and let my ear be my guide.


Thanks for the clarification.

Mark, I have been playing some of my transcriptions every day along with the record. I do this to pick up the subtle jazz "feel."

I learned to do this from playing along with blues transcriptions, because, in blues, the articulation is as important as the note you are playing. So, for example, you can learn as much from how Robben Ford plays a note as from what note he plays.

Is playing transcriptions along with records a good practice routine for jazz?
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Mark
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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Re: Articulations Reply with quote

nylenny wrote:
I learned to do this from playing along with blues transcriptions, because, in blues, the articulation is as important as the note you are playing. So, for example, you can learn as much from how Robben Ford plays a note as from what note he plays.

Is playing transcriptions along with records a good practice routine for jazz?


Len,

Definitely, whether they're written or not. Henry (Johnson) tells me that George Benson can still scat sing over two dozen bird solos that he learned by ear, note for note. And the articulations/nuances that you speak of are the mysterious intangibles when it comes to learning by ear. Players who don't learn that way remain clueless in understanding the real value of the process. They mistakenly think that you're just copying others, but they totally miss the point of what happens to your ear, as proven by Wes, Pass, Bird, Oscar, GB, and so many others.

The subtle squeeze of a note, the amount of slide-off, the microscopic string bend, the perfect degree of vibrato, etc. These are powerful attributes that go FAR beyond the notes themselves. That's what I meant by playing and letting my ear be my guide, because all of those nuances are part of my "automatic pilot" nowadays. Wink The truth is that you become whatever you choose to practice. We create our own destiny. It's that simple.

- Mark
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