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Jazz guitar articulation and relation to phrasing
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billbluesandjazz



Joined: 29 May 2009
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Location: Scotland

PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 6:11 am    Post subject: Jazz guitar articulation and relation to phrasing Reply with quote

I have recently spent some considerable time looking through the various posts - very informative and useful. I have been playing classical piano now for over fifty years as a hobby. Am fortunate enough to study with a Hungarian concert pianist and continue to practise. In my youth I played guitar in various bands, including a jazz band in London (in those days comping plus the odd (simple) solo was all I could manage). Returned to the guitar about two and a half years ago and play every day. Also play clarinet a bit, (alto sax years ago).

My question is simple. I have found very little on the web about articulation and dynamics on the guitar. By articulation I mean the attack of the note as a horn player would do. If you think of a sax player, phrasing is not just breathing, it is the separation by tonguing, the joining of notes by legato, the punctuation by accents, and so on. Of course we cannot use a crescendo on a single note on the guitar, but most other effects can be played. On attempting to duplicate articulation from sax solos I found it much harder on the guitar than on the clarinet. The reason being that the fingering position chosen for the notes drastically changes the sound. For example, some leaps played legato in groups of three require a hammer on followed by a slide/pull-off to get anything near the saxophone sound. Of course it is relatively simple to play the actual notes without large position changes, but this poses other problems. The second, and/or third notes cannot be played with true legato (although if the volume is turned up you can hammer on a new string to avoid the attack of the plectrum). At the very least these notes need to be played much softer than the initial note of the group. Even playing a scale (I know that this is not the way to jazz improvisation but it illustrates the point) requires thought in terms of choice of position. For example to play a major scale with swing articulation requires certain scale forms to be avoided if legato phrasing between short and long notes is to be achieved. Try it - you cannot use the E position (6/2 position). The 6/1 position requires one position shift ascending (scale played to the 9th) and another (different) shift descending.

I am currently working my way back through Robert Conti's The Jazz Lines applying these principles. It seems to improve the sound, at least to my ears.

There is an analogy from classical piano. I have many editions of Beethoven piano sonatas and those with virtuoso editors often have non-obvious fingering, sometimes very awkward (and not because of the size of the hand). These fingerings are almost without exception chosen to emphasise the musical phrase, for example a difficult leap in one hand (Beethoven did not want this to be played with two hands, because it could be played too quickly and also because it removes the drama and excitement from both player and performer). More often, the fingerings force the pianist to play a phrase or slur correctly. This is considered so important that most of the interpretation in upper level piano playing arises from articulation and subtle changes in dynamics, timing (akin to playing ahead of or behind the beat) and of course voicing of lines while playing multiple notes in both hands.

Could the difficulty of achieving articulation on the guitar be why so many "jazz" guitarists play flurries of notes with minimal or no change in dynamics and articulation. Blues players seem to do this naturally. The so-called "blues boxes" of B.B. and Freddie King force specific articulations on the player, as you will see if you transpose them to other pentatonic shapes.

Any suggestions for improving my jazz articulation on the guitar would be welcome. Any advice on how to incorporate such articulation into improvisation?

Thanks in advance, Bill
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Sun May 31, 2009 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bill, welcome to VM!

It appears you are seeing guitar is a breed in of its own making it very dimensional. Not only the manner and/or technique in playing the instrument but the massive array of sounds the instrument can produce, especially in electronic form. Every guitar plays differently and used with various amplifiers, pickups, signal processors...etc the resulting sounds are infinite.

Now to approach your questions on articulation. Bottom line is the vast majority of articulation and dynamics are a result of both left and right hands working in tandum. This takes lots (and I mean LOTS) of practice to really get. There is no single method or practice to really force this into a player. It's mostly a matter of maturity and invested effort to *feel* cause/effect especially using a variety of guitars, amps and related in differing environments.

Al Di Meola was my largest influence many years ago when it came to taking control of both left and right hands to produce a single sound and the control of touch and feel to vary many elements of that sound.

Staccato is most often a result of using the right hand while picking to mute the string. Creating dynamics is most often a result of right hand (picking) with more or less intensity. A crescendo is certainly an element of guitar but most often applied by increased right hand / picking intensity in synchronization with the musical meter or electronically by simply using a volume pedal or volume knob to increase the volume.

There are a billion ways to do a billion things, welcome to journey. Wink
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billbluesandjazz



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:40 am    Post subject: Jazz guitar articulation and phrasing Reply with quote

Gorecki, thanks for your comments. I am working mainly on playing without effects i.e straight into the amp with at most one pedal for crunch in blues, but mainly none for jazz. I will check out Al di Meola. I mostly listen to Wes, plus horn players - the usual suspects - Bird, Miles, Coltrane, Cannonball Adderley, Clifford Brown with piano players such as Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Bud Powell and so on. I don't really listen to too much jazz guitar - Wes Montgomery put me off playing for years, I couldn't even begin to figure out how he was doing what he was! Remember that in the 60s I was wearing out my records dropping the needle on the likes of West Coast Blues! 'Wink'

I can produce all the dynamics and articulation effects on the guitar (I draw the line at using a volume pedal or violining with a volume knob!) but my real question relates to the choice of position/fingering to produce the effect. On the piano or saxophone/clarinet, there is only one way of playing each note (ignoring alternative fingerings on the horns). This means that when playing you can naturally produce phrasing and articulation without concerning yourself with where the notes are. On the guitar, the position makes a great difference, not just to the possibility of playing legato with hammer-on/off/slides but also to the actual sound of the note.

A musician such as Charlie Christian played mainly out of a set of chord shapes, which produced a particular set of sounds and articulations. (Ditto for most blues players). Other players, no names, no pack drill, play runs all over the neck, but tend to have little difference in either articulation or dynamics- the notes are "jazz" runs, but to my ear they lack any emotional content. By limiting himself (either deliberately or subconsciously) to these shapes Christian in fact became so familiar with them that they became his language. Likewise Wes mainly played in the low to middle part of the neck, but nobody would ever criticise his musicality. Is it perhaps time to go back and play out of chord shapes, de-emphasising scales? Also perhaps using more classical violin technique - by that I mean moving positions rapidly between shapes in order to produce the desired effect, rather than playing across the strings in more or less one position.

Thanks again for your comments, any other suggestions are welcome. Bill
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billbluesandjazz



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 2:21 pm    Post subject: Additional reply to Gorecki Reply with quote

Gorecki - checked out Al Di Meola - listened to some of his solos on the web and I'm afraid it is not my taste at all - in many examples he picks almost every note, so has little variation in articulation. I can see why people like him, his playing is technically advanced, at least regarding speed, but it is not for me.

This is almost the direct opposite of what I want to play, so it is valuable to have heard him. (I have to admit that I couldn't even listen all the way through most of the tracks!) Thanks for suggesting him anyway - it helped me focus on what I want from the guitar. Bill
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Dean



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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is in the hands,that is what all the great players say.Bill check out Monty Montgomery and see if that is of your liking.He works all of the guitar,top to bottom.
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Additional reply to Gorecki Reply with quote

billbluesandjazz wrote:
Gorecki - checked out Al Di Meola - listened to some of his solos on the web and I'm afraid it is not my taste at all - in many examples he picks almost every note, so has little variation in articulation. I can see why people like him, his playing is technically advanced, at least regarding speed, but it is not for me.

This is almost the direct opposite of what I want to play, so it is valuable to have heard him. (I have to admit that I couldn't even listen all the way through most of the tracks!) Thanks for suggesting him anyway - it helped me focus on what I want from the guitar. Bill


Opps... I was trying to use Di Meola as an example of extreme left/right hand control. He is over the top. For me he was a large influence back in the early 80's on something outside the simple chord pentatonic based rock of the time, technique that caused me to really develop my right hand as well as my left. And to not depend on electronics to have dynamics and articulation.

However..as to music of choice, I honestly can say I really haven't like a lot he as done in the more recent years. So I understand where you're coming from. Can't put Di Meola and Christian in the same dialog, just doesn't seem right. Laughing

Oh, and Wes has pretty much driven everyone a little nuts at one time or another, so don't feel bad. He's an outstanding example of trying to explain the anomaly, just difficult to do.

Hopefully more will chime in on the subject, it has been a little quite around here lately.
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billbluesandjazz



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to Dean and Gorecki for their helpful comments. I listened to a piano/alto gig yesterday - great bebop and classic jazz players, particularly the alto (he leads Strathclyde University's jazz course but can really play). I asked him about articulation and his comment was that the fact I was thinking about it was already ahead of many players. (He was talking about all instruments, not just guitar). He further said that most young players he teaches do not listen to the greats like Bird, Cannonball, Wes, Kenny B (not Kenny G!!) and so on.

His advice was to transcribe then play along with the recording absorbing the phrasing and articulation as you go. I guess that deep down I knew that was the best way to develop in jazz anyway. I am still interested in the topic from a guitar point of view because of the particular challenges the guitar poses for articulation. Bill
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Dean



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill ,I hope you come back and let us know about your findings.I like blues and jazz,there are a lot of styles that should fit your need.
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billbluesandjazz



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 1:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dean, have started transcribing Bird's Ornithology - paying particular attention to his phrasing, inflection and articulation. Using one of his own recordings for the head and solo - also comparing Bud Powell's version. Really interesting results for articulation - have changed the fingering of sections of the head to reproduce more of Bird's sound on guitar. Arvin Garrison is on guitar, with an unknown (M. Davis) on trumpet!

By the way, comparing my transcription with the Parker Omnibook is also instructive - I think that it depends on the source - the Omnibook is only for checking after transcribing and is not the same as the recording I am using.

Thanks for the support. Bill
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Dean



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill, great to hear back from you, sounds like you are doing just fine.You will find that transcriptions can very from printer to printer.They sometimes do not account for the fingering either,say using a A on the third string instead of the open A at fifth fret ,things like that.Fingering is something you have to play with,using the notes in different positions and what makes sense.You probably already know this,but thought I would just throw it in for others.
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Gorecki
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 6:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dean wrote:
You will find that transcriptions can very from printer to printer.


That's pretty well put, even to a greater extreme transcription and the interpretation it represents can be subjective or simplified.

I guess the best way I can think of describing it is I can honestly say I don't believe I have EVER played any tune in performance EXACTLY the same way twice. Wink

So, realistically any transcription has subjective value, be it the context of the tune or the content of the performance.

It's clear you have more than novice musical experience by far Bill because the content you're looking into is considerably more than may will ever seek. Cool! Thumbs Up!
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billbluesandjazz



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just playing the Ornithology head again and finding even more nuances by playing along with the recording.

Incidentally, the Omnibook has no tab or fingerings. It is reckoned to be the most accurate of all Parker transcriptions, but even with correct note pitches that is probably only about 25% of the effect.

As for playing a piece the same twice in a row - it is impossible. Even playing a classical composition such as a Bach Prelude or Brahms Intermezzo with exact notes and articulation, it is impossible to play it twice exactly the same.
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Dean



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PostPosted: Fri Jun 05, 2009 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

billbluesandjazz wrote:
Just playing the Ornithology head again and finding even more nuances by playing along with the recording.

Incidentally, the Omnibook has no tab or fingerings. It is reckoned to be the most accurate of all Parker transcriptions, but even with correct note pitches that is probably only about 25% of the effect.

As for playing a piece the same twice in a row - it is impossible. Even playing a classical composition such as a Bach Prelude or Brahms Intermezzo with exact notes and articulation, it is impossible to play it twice exactly the same.


And this is why the guitar is so exciting.I have seen two people play the same song,and one version they just played the notes and the second verison played the notes with feeling.It is like night and day.I also believe if you play anything with feeling ,it becomes music.Even if the notes are not just right.
Bill, with your back ground,I am sure you will be a very good guitar player.You probably already are.Keep us posted on your findings,as they are great for discussion.
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Dean



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 06, 2009 4:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bill and Gorecki ,I went on line and checked out Ornithology, guess what I am going to learn next.I like the Moon one ,too.So thanks for the push.
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billbluesandjazz



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PostPosted: Mon Jun 08, 2009 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dean. Great choice! A few suggestions for learning the head.

Listen Very carefully to all the versions you can. Bud Powell has a great alternative to the normal triplets played on Bird versions over the bars before the repeat - i.e. over D7+9, B-7, E7+9. A-7, D7+9 and again over B-7, E7+9. A-7, D7, Gmaj7. The second is much trickier to pull off on the guitar at speed, but worth the effort (some of the YouTube wannabees completely screw this up 'Laughing' - the articulation must be clear, NOT all picked!

I find that only certain positions on the neck allow me to play with the phrasing and articulation that I want (I'll let you work this out for yourself). Personally I find it easier playing on the 1st and 2nd strings, but in my opinion it does not sound so good in this octave - experiment to find out what you like.

Ornithology is always played fast, sometimes very fast (300 b.p.m.) - start slow and build up to it. The head is tricky to master on the guitar, but contains many Parker/Bebop trademarks such as enclosure.

As for soloing - any number of approaches can work well - change running (just following the chords with arpeggios), playing over the multitude of ii/V/Is in the harmony, harmonic generalisation (playing runs in appropriate keys as you go i.e. G, F, Eb etc.) - you are only limited by your imagination.

Have fun! Bill
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