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7-String

 
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 9:56 am    Post subject: 7-String Reply with quote

I recently (about two months ago) bought and started playing a 7-string guitar. So far, I'm really enjoying it, and finding that I can do a lot of things on that instument that I can't do on six string, and the low A string sounds amazing.

Does anyone else play 7-string? If so, what has your experience been with switching back and forth between 6- and 7-string? Right now, I'm forcing myself to play exclusively on the 7-string to get used to it.

What are your thoughts on 7-string (besides for the corny "there are enough things to learn with six strings; I don't need a seventh" Wink ).
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woland99



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 155
Location: Austin, TX

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 4:16 pm    Post subject: Re: 7-String Reply with quote

nylonjazz wrote:
What are your thoughts on 7-string (besides for the corny "there are enough things to learn with six strings; I don't need a seventh" Wink ).


A friend of mine - local luthier here in Austin, TX - Chris Forshage
builds very nice 7-string archtops and also Klein-like headless
and extremely ergonomic guitars which he calls "Clown Fish".
I ordered one of these from them an was considering 7-string version.
His honest advice was "do not do it unless you are ready to commit to
7 string instrument almost exlusively and unless you truly feel the need
to have extended bass range to express yourself. Chris is himself and
excellent guitarist and he plays 7-string Clown Fish as his main guitar.
So I ordered 6 string version instead. But since I still had 7 string itch
I bought cheap ($100) 7 string Ibanez on craigs. It needs some work
so I am not playing it now. But I can tell - it does require making a
choice to master it. And I just have to many great 6 string guitars.

JT
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Gorecki
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 238
Location: Glenwood, MD

PostPosted: Thu Apr 05, 2007 5:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have one seven solid body and I like the low B for things I want lower then a standard E tuning. I don't care for alternate tunings.

I do find myself fumbling a bit if I've been playing six a lot but after a little reclamation I do 'okay' with it.

I've been considering picking up a six bass for a while though honestly, it's just because and for no other real reason. Confused
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 10:21 am    Post subject: Re: 7-String Reply with quote

nylonjazz wrote:
What are your thoughts on 7-string (besides for the corny "there are enough things to learn with six strings; I don't need a seventh").


Nylon,

This is something that I've discussed at length with Henry Johnson, who shares my sentiments. I don't think that comment is "corny" at all. Why? Because my mentors, many of whom are brilliant chord-melody guitarists, played a traditional 6-string and sound incredible. I do have a seven, but rarely play it. With all due respect, I want my work to be measured against my mentors, and once you change the instrument itself you always have to add an *asterisk to the equation. The same goes for my classical guitar repertoire. I don't need a 10-string like Yepes played when Segovia, John Williams, Bream, Parkening, and a host of other brilliant virtuosos played a six. But that's me. It's a personal call.

Anyway, perhaps that's why Jimmy Bruno went back to a 6-string. Who knows? It's all subjective, but when I want more bottom I pick up my bass. Very Happy And for the record, all of my main bass influences are upright artists, therefore 4-string players, although I do have a 5-string that I play on occasion. If I craved a 6-string bass with a high C for more range, I'd pick up my guitar instead.

Call me a traditionist. Call me corny for following in the footsteps of 6-string players like Wes, Pass, Burrell, and others, but that's my take on the subject. I LOVE the challenge of making my guitar sound as big as a house without adding extra strings. Different strokes...

- Mark
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nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting points.

I do have to say, however, that I'm experiencing a challenge from trying to learn to play this beast. The addition of the seventh string throws off your visual / tactile sense -- much more than I had imagined it would.

So I am having to think about notes locations more than on six-string.

My sense is that, after playing seven-string for a while, if I do go back to six-string, my fingerboard knowledge will be improved, because I've had to consciously think about where notes are, which I haven't done for a long time.

Also, the sound of the low-A string, especially below the low-D is so cool. And you can get some amazing voicings.

There are some great players that I would love to have as mentors when I get the time -- like Bucky Pizzarelli -- that play seven-string.

BTW, I also picked up a seven-string nylon, because I think I need to fully immerse for a couple months and then make a decision.

On the classical, ten-string side, the extra four strings exist for a different reason. I studied briefly with Vincenzo Macaluso, who was a well-known 10-string players in the '70s (if you're not familiar with him, pick up his recordings, which are only available on vinyl now -- all of them are on the Klavier label, and, IMHO, he's every bit as good as Yepes). Vince explained to me that the ten-string tuning cancels out "wolf" tones (i.e., unwanted overtones) and creates a better tone as sympathetic vibrations are more consistent accross different notes (I probably botched this explanation, but hopefully I explained the point).

You can use muting techniques to control your overtone series in a way that is not possible on six-string. So, the classical ten-string is really a tone machine. Classical guitarists are obsessed with tone and balance (go ahead and shoot me for saying this, but I always take it with a grain of salt when electric players say they're tone obsessed, because that usually means that they have expensive equipment, not that they sat in a practice room for years improving their tone and balance by mere technique alone -- although blues players and some jazz guitarists do seem to control their tone with technique), which classical players can only get tone from technique (and of course a decent instrument, but note that all concert players have absurdly expensive guitars, but their tone varies dramatically from player to player) -- there are no electronics (and which makes them strive for technical proficiency that is astounding -- imagine reaching down to mute the tenth string while playing a contrapuntal fugue) -- no electronic shortcuts. Here's an explanation of the 10-string from Wikipedia:

"After Narciso Yepes had already achieved international fame, he reached the point where the 6-string guitar no longer sufficed for his needs. He was disturbed by the irregularity of acoustic resonance produced by the overtones of its bass strings, vibrating in sympathy with notes played on the fingerboard. Some notes (E, A, D, B) sounded full, enriched by this sympathetic vibration, while others were without the same lustre and sustain. Yepes's idea to correct this imbalance - a guitar with fully chromatic string resonators created in 1963 in collaboration with José Ramirez - followed a strict musical and scientific logic.


"Upon adding four bass string tuned a very specific way - C, B-flat, A-flat, G-flat - the same resonance is obtained from each of the notes that make up the fingerboard's sonorous catalogue, by taking advantage of the natural harmonics (the octaves and the dominant fifths) of the bass strings, which produce unison, sympathetic vibrations with notes played on the fingerboard. In other words, the additional strings act as string resonators (though they can be, and are also, played on). The result is termed chromatic string resonance since the bass strings now resonate in sympathy with any of the twelve notes of the chromatic scale, similar to the piano's sustain when the pedal is used. And just as a pianist has the option of whether or not to employ the pedal, the competent 10-string guitarist is able to execute complete control, sustaining or stopping notes at will. This, most important aspect of the Yepes 10-string guitar, in fact, is the crux of his invention and is inseparable from the correct tuning of his instrument."

Now, I do admit that a lot of Baroque repetoire can be played on 10-string, and Yepes and others play notes on the low string. However, the motivation there is very pure; they transpose from lute without changing octaves in the bass voice, which can have some dramatic musical implications.

I also will mention that whenever I saw Vincenzo play in concert or at a lesson, he rarely played notes on the bottom four strings.
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Mark
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Joined: 26 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nylonjazz wrote:
My sense is that, after playing seven-string for a while, if I do go back to six-string, my fingerboard knowledge will be improved, because I've had to consciously think about where notes are, which I haven't done for a long time.

Also, the sound of the low-A string, especially below the low-D is so cool. And you can get some amazing voicings.


Nylon,

Again it's a personal call. I didn't find that to be the case, and lamented the time I could have spent on my 6-string instead. However, whatever rings anyone's bell, and I have great respect for any 7-string guitarist, assuming that they play well. Smile

I was just a little put off by your use of the word "corny" in that post, because it infered that the statement is made in a flippant way and without much thought. That may indeed be true for some, but for me, Henry, and many of my colleagues, it's something that has been given a lot of serious consideration.

Of course, you are aware that not everyone favors a low A string on a seven? I tune mine like a bass 5-string, with a low B. Keeps everything more logical in 4ths, and since I have over 35 years invested as a bassist, I already think that way in the lower register. All for now...

- Mark
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Gorecki
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Joined: 24 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 06, 2007 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do find myself using it most as a novelty. The additional lower note offers limited use out side of moving bass lines and chord tones no less than the next perfect interval up. Otherwise it becomes too muddy for my taste.
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