Vision Music Forum Index Vision Music
Community Forum
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

A Bass Playing Epiphany
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Vision Music Forum Index -> The Bass Space
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Fajah



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 12:52 pm    Post subject: A Bass Playing Epiphany Reply with quote

A week ago Sunday, while the house was nice and quiet, I flipped to CoolTV to see what was on. For those who don’t know, CoolTV is a subscriber channel which broadcasts jazz and blues musical content on Rogers digital cable here in Toronto. There happened to a Lee Ritenour concert on, and I was enjoying it thoroughly. About halfway though the concert, they launch into a sweet version of the tune Stolen Moments. It’s a great medium swing, minor jazz/blues tune with some great changes. I hadn’t heard it in quite some time. Lee Ritenour’s arrangement really inspired me for I happen to love his playing in general.

So as I usually do when I get inspired, I went to my computer, downloaded various versions of tune, and printed out a couple of charts to examine. With guitar in hand, I worked out a decent version (and jam track) and sent the tune, jam track, and charts to my Monday night jamming buddies, so they can spend some time doing a bit of preparation before our next session. They all agreed that it would be a great tune to play.

We got together last night. Unfortunately a couple of guys (keyboard and guitar) were out of town on business, so our line up was one guitar, two saxes (alto and tenor), drums, and myself on bass. I had also brought my guitar, for it’s easier for me to work through a new arrangement with my guitar in hand. We went through the tune about three times, working on various parts, and it was really coming together nicely. We then started playing the tune from top to bottom, allowing for soloing.

The soloing is done over a typical minor jazz/blues progression, and the first time through the whole tune, I was playing the guitar. It sounded pretty good, but that medium swing groove was just not there, and everyone seemed to be lethargic in their playing (and soloing for that matter). Half way through the solo section, I put my guitar down, picked up the bass, and started to play some walking bass lines.

The whole room came to life! Looks of astonishment were on everyone’s face at first, then some really big smiles. It was quite incredible. Everybody’s playing automatically kicked up a notch. It was tighter, the swing groove was right there, and even the soloing was better. This had nothing to do with my playing, for I didn’t do anything fancy. When that low rumble of the bass kicked in, it was like giving everyone a shot of adrenaline. I literally got shivers down my spine.

I’ve experienced a rush of enlightenment when playing jazz guitar from time to time, but I never really, and truly appreciated the impact of the bass in music as I experienced it last night. It was truly an epiphany for all of us playing.

I hope you’ve enjoyed my post. Since I frequent a few forums, you may see this on other sites as well. I’m really pumped. Had trouble getting sleep last night thinking about it.

Lawrie
_________________
Mr. Lawrie Mann: Toronto, Canada

Guitar Gear:
1968 Raven Semi Hollow
1970 Ovation Balladeer
SX STL-50
Roland Cube 60
Roland Microcube

Bass Gear:
SX SJB-75
Douglas WEB-846 Fretless
Markbass LMII
Bergantino AE112 Cab
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
fingerpicker



Joined: 27 Sep 2007
Posts: 7
Location: Michigan

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm surprised nobody else has responded to this before now.

I've had similar experiences. I attend a number of jam sessions where there are a bunch of guitarists and other instruments (usually treble clef) and no bass. To my ear, this sounds like the buzzing of the bees. When I bring in my bass, suddenly, the music has focus and clarity. It is remarkable how much the bass adds to virtually any genre of music. Now I don't leave home without it. Very Happy
_________________
Forget the pick! Fingers forever!!!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Fajah



Joined: 03 Apr 2007
Posts: 9
Location: Toronto

PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

fingerpicker wrote:
I'm surprised nobody else has responded to this before now.

I've had similar experiences. I attend a number of jam sessions where there are a bunch of guitarists and other instruments (usually treble clef) and no bass. To my ear, this sounds like the buzzing of the bees. When I bring in my bass, suddenly, the music has focus and clarity. It is remarkable how much the bass adds to virtually any genre of music. Now I don't leave home without it. Very Happy


I still long to play jazz guitar most of the time and don't get much of a chance to do it in our jam sessions. Decent bass players are so hard to find, especially for jazz. There are none (other than myself) amongst my group of friends. Of the guitar playing friends I have who have tried, they......in a word...stink Smile

I'm now trying out some looping stations where I can lay down a bass track, and then play the guitar. I'm even going to the extent of trying out octave pedals, so that I don't have to switch back and forth between instruments.

If anything, it will certainly be interesting.

Lawrie
_________________
Mr. Lawrie Mann: Toronto, Canada

Guitar Gear:
1968 Raven Semi Hollow
1970 Ovation Balladeer
SX STL-50
Roland Cube 60
Roland Microcube

Bass Gear:
SX SJB-75
Douglas WEB-846 Fretless
Markbass LMII
Bergantino AE112 Cab
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Fri Oct 31, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Fajah, How do you like the Markbass amp? They certainly seem portable.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sun Nov 09, 2008 11:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started Marks bass class and it's remarkable how much better walking bass lines with punches sound on the real thing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Mon Nov 10, 2008 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good to hear Larry. Let me know how it goes. I am focused more on R&B and blues playing on the bass. But at some point, I may graduate to jazz. I am working on my jazz guitar quite a bit, and from time-to-time I wonder if playing jazz bass lines would help me with my jazz guitar. let me know what changes you see in your guitar playing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: Bass Thoughts Reply with quote

Larry_DC wrote:
I just started Mark's bass class and it's remarkable how much better walking bass lines with punches sound on the real thing.


Larry,

I won't give away the content of the second chapter in the series Wink, but you're "preaching to the choir" when it comes to the most important instrument in any situation, regardless of genre.

Even though jazz guitarists like Joe Pass and others popularized the idea of combining walking bass lines with chords, check out this brief version of a "C Jam Blues" walk done on my Padulla 4-string fretted bass, with shell chord voicings added.

In addition, whether it's R&B, funk, or jazz, I LOVE composing on the bass. "Have We Met?" is my latest jazz bebop composition, based on Rhythm Changes in Bb. It was written on bass, then doubled with guitar, and includes a "fake" rhythm bridge featuring a bass walk and upper-string guitar chord voicings. Hope you guys dig it! All for now...

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 1:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome posts Mark!

On the walking bass with shell chords, how do you handle the right hand? Are you playing the bass line with your thumb, while you play the 3rds and 7ths with i and m (or m and a), like a classical guitarist would? I was surprised that the 3rds and 7ths sound clear in such a low register. It sounds like the tessitura of the chords is generally a seventh to a tenth, and I would have expected some of the intervals to sound muddier. Very interesting listening.

Love the rhythm changes. I like the comping line where you play a two-five with an a shape minor ninth, going up to a d-shape minor and minor 7th, and the "funk shape" dominant ninth chord. Very melodic playing. I really enjoyed it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Wed Nov 12, 2008 8:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Bass Tracks Reply with quote

nylenny wrote:
Awesome posts Mark!

On the walking bass with shell chords, how do you handle the right hand? Are you playing the bass line with your thumb, while you play the 3rds and 7ths with i and m (or m and a), like a classical guitarist would? I was surprised that the 3rds and 7ths sound clear in such a low register. It sounds like the tessitura of the chords is generally a seventh to a tenth, and I would have expected some of the intervals to sound muddier. Very interesting listening.

Love the rhythm changes. I like the comping line where you play a two-five with an a shape minor ninth, going up to a d-shape minor and minor 7th, and the "funk shape" dominant ninth chord. Very melodic playing. I really enjoyed it.


Len,

Thanks, man. I thought, given our mutual backgrounds in classical music, that you might enjoy the bass walk w/chords done on an actual bass (as opposed to guitar Wink). Yes, I'm using my thumb plus i and m for the 3rds and 7ths. It's a bit tricky in that you frequently have to make voicing decisions higher on the neck to avoid a muddy sound, but over the years I've got pretty proficient in being able to make those choices on the fly without any pre-arranging. That was the case with that track. Just something off the top of my head, but next time the walk and voicings would be related yet different.

On the other hand, check out this solo bass version of a tune you're familiar with from the Swing Blues course, "The Sweet Alice Blues" by George Benson. It's part of my Jazz Bassist course and you'll note that I opted to keep the tune in the original key of G (instead of F), just to get the cleaner voicings on the bass.

Glad you dug the rhythm changes original. That's the 6th tune I've written to date based on that epic progression, and my 7th has been scored and is due to be released shortly. Stay tuned...

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Thu Nov 13, 2008 7:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That C-Jam sounds a lot like what I was doing. I wonder where I got the idea? I'm using my thumb for the single lines and two fingers for the double stops, and thumb and fingers for the three note chords. This sure is a work out for the left arm. I hope I don't end up looking like a fiddler crab.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:52 am    Post subject: Re: Bass Tricks Reply with quote

Larry_DC wrote:
That C-Jam sounds a lot like what I was doing. I wonder where I got the idea? I'm using my thumb for the single lines and two fingers for the double stops, and thumb and fingers for the three note chords. This sure is a work out for the left arm. I hope I don't end up looking like a fiddler crab.


Larry,

<LOL> Not to get you or anyone else going off on some crazy technical tangent, but I have a related teacher/student story to share:

Most aren't aware of this fact, but many years ago when I was teaching full-time privately in the SF Bay Area, over half of my students were bass players. I had developed a pretty solid reputation as a bass instructor, so one day this guy who'd heard of me calls to inquire about lessons. His name was Michael Burton. When we got together, he explained that he'd just gotten a gig in a jazz guitar trio, but knew very little about jazz.

Well, the guy was a helluva player when it came to contemporary bass, and his impressive ability is what got him the gig, but he really wanted to get an authentic grip on the jazz genre. The other twist is that his father was a professional upright jazz bassist working in SoCal. Michael hadn't seen him for years and wanted to impress him when they got together.

Long story short is that I gave him a blues walk in C to learn, plus some cool II-V licks during that first lesson. He really dug the material, but what blew me away is what he came back with the following week. He was doing the walking bass w/chords routine, but he did it by playing the 3rds/7ths on his two high strings with his right-hand index and middle fingers, yet it wasn't a Stanley Jordan or Stuart Hamm tapping thing. Instead he was plucking the double-stops with his remaining ring and baby fingers to get this really clean, pianistic sound. That freed his left hand to walk on the bottom two strings, plucked with the right-hand thumb. What struck me immediately was the incredible range that he achieved, very impressive on a standard 4-string bass. This was before 5-string basses had gotten so popular. On top of that, he would slide into those tritone double-stops with the right-hand, something you can't do without the two-hand independence.

Just for kicks, try holding down a high Bb with your RH middle finger on the G string at the 15th fret. Add an E with your RH index finger on the D string at the 14th fret. Now play a low C on the A string at the 3rd fret with any LH finger. Pluck that with your thumb while you pluck the upper two tones with the RH ring and baby fingers. Takes some practice but you'll start to hear the potential. Now move the upper string tritone down a half-step to A and Eb, and change your bass note to low F at the 1st fret and you'll be doing something that is seemingly impossible physically on the bass. Explore walking between the C and F while changing the chords, then syncopate the rhythm and try sliding into the chords.

Now, this guy had the technique down ice cold and he made a 4-string bass sound like a 6-string bass with his unique approach. HUGE range and beautiful tone. If that wasn't enough, he played the II-V licks right-hand tapped a la Jordan (including slurs) while his left-hand fingers and right-hand thumb did a walk. Jaw on the floor time Wink. Anyway, I've never forgotten meeting this guy. After a couple of months of lessons we parted ways and I've never heard of him again.

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
nylenny



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 291

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! I tried doing that. It's not easy. I did end up tapping out tritones over a jazz blues a-la Stanley Jordan at a very slow tempo, which was fun.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Mark
VM Coach


Joined: 26 Feb 2007
Posts: 479
Location: Portland, OR

PostPosted: Sat Nov 15, 2008 11:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Bass Technique Reply with quote

nylenny wrote:
Wow! I tried doing that. It's not easy. I did end up tapping out tritones over a jazz blues a-la Stanley Jordan at a very slow tempo, which was fun.


Len,

I never said it was "easy" Laughing . I was starting to get the hang of it by doing blues walks, two-chord vamps, turnarounds, etc, but then I let it go, realizing that I'd have to invest consistent time and energy to really do it well. What appeals to me most is the pristine tone compared to tapping, because I often get extraneous noise or unwanted overtones with the latter. I'll get back to it eventually Wink. All for now...

- Mark
_________________
"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
Larry_DC



Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 207

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's quite a creative approach to playing, bass or otherwise. I tried it for a few minutes and realized I would end up in the hospital if I didn't cease and desist at once.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
corky4strings



Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 109
Location: plain, pa.

PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mark for the unwanted overtones if you put a hair scrunchy for ponytails on your bass and slide to the first fret it will stop the unwanted overtones. i've seen victor wooten do that and also norm stockton
_________________
corky




let your fingers do the walking i do
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Vision Music Forum Index -> The Bass Space All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group