Vision Music

[thaydon]

Learning 2-5-1 lines is essential for improvising, but I get confused with the harmony in certain parts of songs (Yardbird Suite and Doxy) where there is step wise, 1/2 step motion (i.e., C7 to Bflat7 to A7) what approach to take there?
Also, with YBS and other songs like Ladybird, there is a CM chord leading to 2-5 in Eflat, going back to CM again. Eflat does not "belong" in the key of C. Is this some kind of flat 3 substitution?
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sincerely yours,

Todd

[Larry_DC]

Yardbird Suites, one of my all time favorites. The C7-Bb7-A7 progression features a flat-five substitute. A "normal" progression would be C-Emin7-A7, or C7-E7-A7 if it's all dominants, right? Think of the Bb7 as the flat five sub for the E7 and it makes sense.

Regarding the Eb in C mystery, my take is that depending on the harmony in a given song, chords will repeat in minor thirds. start with CMaj7, move it up a minor third and you have EbMaj7. Approaching with a II-V just makes it more interesting. F is the IV and the Bb as the V is subbing for the E, just like in the YBS run above. Again, whether it works or not is totally dependent on the melody.

[Mark]

Guys,

Whenever you encounter a non-diatonic chord in a jazz progression (if a 7th they are called "secondary dominants" in classical circles), it's either a substitution for or related to a primary chord. Larry and I were recently discussing my bass background and the fact that as a bassist you often have to decipher the underlying harmony, which has been worth its weight in gold to me over the years. It's the very essence of the Mingus' "making the complicated simple" quote, because pianists and many guitarists have a penchant for adding too many subs, flexing their Berklee classroom brains.

However, in the case of these particular tunes and your comments? When I encounter a Bb7 (bVII) in the key of C, I usually think/hear F minor (IVm) over it. Yes, I suppose you could think of the Bb7 as a tritone sub for the E7, but as an improviser and composer I'm always seeking a sound solution that works and involves little mental processing.

The other point I should make is that much of this depends on how long the band is sitting on that chord, because in the case of YBS, Doxy, Donna Lee, and other jazz tunes, it's just a transitional passing chord to the VI (A7 in C). So for me what works best is staying with the Oscar Peterson major blues approach and concentrating on where I'm going, instead of literally coming up with a game plan for improvising on that one chord.

To hear what I'm talking about, click here to check out the first half of my YBS solo from the Good Vibes Jazz Solo series. Specifically listen to what's going on in the third bar of each A section.

Now, if I were sitting on that chord for more than a couple of beats (e.g. Killer Joe, West Coast Blues, etc), I would get more involved with using dom blues and minor superimposition on the Bb7 itself. Just a matter of what works most effectively for the situation at hand, and over the years I've made enough mistakes to know what doesn't work.

Regarding the Eb chord in C, that's typically the tritone sub for the A (VI) chord and often found in turnarounds (e.g. C, Eb, Ab, Db). In that scenario, Trane's "Sheets Of Sound" is a great approach. All for now...

- Mark
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"Anyone can make the simple complicated. Creativity is making the complicated simple" - Mingus

[thaydon]

Larry, thanks for your reply. Mark, what you said makes perfect sense.

thanks,
_________________
sincerely yours,

Todd

[Don MacArthur]

I completely understand what Mark is saying and I hope more aspiring jazzers are taking in all of these excellent posts. Based on what I I've seen and heard so far, I can honestly say that if they are not participating then they are missing out on a lot of very useful information. Thank you Mark and others!!

Don MacArthur
(Need a Quote here)

[Larry_DC]

Mark's explanation certainly makes more sense. Just when you think you're hip to the theory, it's back to the books